Q&A – 4

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Happy PR Friday! Post your training PRs and updates to the comments. What kind of progress have you made this year?
Don’t forget that this is Movember and we’re raising money to kick cancer in the BALLS. Don’t shave, show off your beard, or grow a mustache. Whatever, just join the team and raise funds.

bohdi asks:

I have a question that doesn’t really apply to the podcast though, but rather dead lifting.
[spoiler show=”Show the wall o’ text” hide=”Hide the wall o’ text”]A lot of what I’ve read seems to make the case for a relatively narrow stance for the conventional dead lift due to mechanical advantages and so on. Due to some mobility issues I began dead lifting with a narrower stance (roughly 6 inches in between feet) because it felt more comfortable to get down and also because my own research seemed to advocate for the narrower stance. Thanks to you, Justin, my mobility is greatly improving and I feel almost back to normal with my previous wider stance (feet approx. just outside shoulder width). I pulled an easy 445# yesterday with the wider stance and 480# is my current PR before the stance/mobility issues. I’m curious, since I seem to be going against what most consider an ideal stance, is this just a product of my specific body type leverages and I don’t need to worry, or is there something else going on that I’m doing wrong and I’m trying to counteract other inefficiencies. My short term goal is to get over 500# in the 181 class so I have a little ways to go but I want to make sure the basic efficacy of the lift is solid. The only other noteworthy aspect is that my weak point has always been off the floor, and the wider stance seems to help. Lockout has never seemed to be an issue. Thanks.[/spoiler]

TL;DR — He wants to know how a narrow stance would be more beneficial in the deadlift.

Dear bohdi,

A narrow stance on the deadlift is more efficient and important, and is usually the one thing that most people can correct to improve their deadlift. The ideal stance is best summarized as “hip width”, which is quite obviously more narrow than “shoulder width” (a typical squat stance, which is also usually too wide in most people). This will be no more than ten inches for most people. I measured my stance, and it’s nine inches from heel to heel. Don’t worry about the specific measurement; just use a hip-width stance.

First, the narrow stance can improve the set up. If the stance is more narrow, then the knees can be shoved out more compared to a wider stance. Shoving the knees out more is external rotation, and that means there is more external rotation at the hip with the narrow stance when your knees are touching the arms. More external rotation will do two things: 1) it will contract the external rotators more and subsequently use them to maintain tightness around the hip and to apply force and 2) externally rotating will bring the femur away from the ASIS, or hip bone, so that there is no, or less, hip impingement. Less hip impingment will allow you to put the lumbar spine into extension more effectively. See Mark Rippetoe’s “Active Hip” article if you’re confused. This externally rotated position with a narrow stance utilizes the muscluature of the quadriceps and hamstrings much better than a wider stance, improving the overall efficiency of the lift.

Secondly, the narrow stance will allow for a more narrow grip. The grip should be close enough so that at lockout, the hands are on each side of the legs. A more narrow grip will shorten the distance that the bar has to be pulled. If you’re confused, then consider deadlifting with a snatch grip; the bar will have to travel a greater distance due to the wide grip. Having a narrow grip will shorten this distance, yet it will also allow the chest to be squeezed up more than if there was a wider grip. If you’re confused, observe back angle changes when placing your hands on the inside of the collar of the bar compared to putting your hands on the inside rings (where the knurling starts). The back angle will be more vertical, and thus more efficient, with the narrow grip.

These are two compelling points for using a hip-width stance on the deadlift, and these are two corrections I have to make in every workshop I’ve ever done. Along with these corrections, the lifter just needs to drag the bar up their legs and they will achieve a B grade deadlift. An A is awarded to sub-maximal lifts when the back is not unlocked and the hamstrings do their job of maintaining the angle off the floor and extending the hips for the lockout.

benzc asks:

Since the lats aid in internal rotation, would fucking sweet lats help make an overhead position in the snatch more stable? If not does lat strength have any real carry over into oly lifting?

Dear benzc,

In a proper snatch rack, the shoulders will be externally rotated. This is the position that will be most efficient and safest at the shoulder, elbow, and wrist. As we know from the bench discussion, the lats will stretch when in external rotation.

Lat strength will certainly be one factor improving stability in the rack position of a snatch, but snatch technique will be largely more responsible. If the skill of a proper rack isn’t learned or the bar path throughout the entire lift is funky (i.e. looping around the head), then impressive lat strength won’t be enough to hold it in place. However, greater shoulder strength will be beneficial for hitting heavier snatches provided that the technique is there…but it usually isn’t. Having a good base of strength and musculature will be important when learning the movement and can help account for lack of technique by muscling the bar into position, yet good technique will reduce the need for severe over corrections.

The Wheel of Pain asks:

Yo Justin, what do you think of IIFYM (If It Fits Your Macros (then eat it) as a nutrition approach. Basically, build your diet around whole foods blah blah blah, but if you want a bit of ice cream, a cheeseburger, or some tacos and beers with friends, enjoy–as long as you adjust your day’s (or week’s) total intake so that this stuff fits within your macro scheme. This way you’re not totally avoiding pleasurable foods like an orthorexic freakshow just because they’re not on an approved list of “pure” or “good” or “clean” foods.

I just heard this acronym today and realized it describes my nutrition approach pretty well.

Dear The Wheel of Pain,

This method would imply that ice cream and snickers bars will be no different than a nutrient dense carb source like a sweet potato. This is sort of related to the Zone vs. Paleo thing that went down with CrossFit a couple of years ago. Eating shitty quality food in an optimal ratio will be better than just eating shitty amounts of copious food, but eating higher quality food will always be better than eating shitty of food. Besides, it’s not like people overeat and get fat or diabetes from blueberries and sweet potatoes.

I’m an advocate of the palelothic diet because it not only makes sense, but it is high in nutrients and low in foods that cause a lot of problems. I pretty much eat within the requirements of a “paleo diet”, yet don’t shy away from a good double bacon cheeseburger and like to have a little bit of wine and beer every week. I think that the paleo diet is the standard for food quality good outline to follow for longevity and health. Along with some other tweaks, it is also very good at reducing body fat and gaining muscle.

In other words, no, I don’t think that eating whatever you want within the boundaries of your macros is an optimal way to eat. Besides, macros are so individualized and training dependent that hardly any of us will know what is an optimal ratio anyway.

Josh Says:

I have a question about the Push Press. I saw this video from CalStrength a while ago, showing Donnie Shankle PP’ing from his traps…so, like, a “behind-the-neck-push-press”. Is this the movement that Glenn is referencing when he talks about the Push Press? Is it a significantly different movement (wrt to strength development and carry over to other lifts)? I am as yet unable to rest the bar on my delts, so this is an attractive alternative to me.

Dear Josh,

I will ask Glenn if that’s what he was referrig to. Behind-the-neck push-presses will yield heavier poundages since the force that the legs produce is transferred to the bar more efficiently than if it’s racked on the deltoids. It’s also easier to maintain a vertical torso with the bar on the back. In other words, you’ll be able to lift heavier weigth behind the neck than in front of it.

However, keep in mind that Donnie has been lifting seriously for over a decade. He is as much of a professional as you will find in our country. I point this out because the behind-the-neck push-press isn’t something I would recommend that a beginner try out, especially because of the descent. If you are unable to rack the bar on your deltoids, you can try raising your elbows up and maybe taking a wider grip. It’s okay if your elbows are pointed completely forward in this movement as the drive from the hips will get the bar to at least eye level.

gumbo says:

Training question for Justin and the gang: what are some cues for squat depth? I want to do USAPL meets next year, so I’ve been obssessive about going deep. But – my coach said last night that I’ve been going too deep (“bottoming-out”) and losing hamstring tension in the process.

How do y’all find that sweet spot that’s below parallel, but not ass-to-grass?

Dear gumbo,

You only need to go about an inch, maybe two, below “parallel” as this will be the optimal positioning to stretch your hamstrings. Any further and the knee angle gets too acute and it shortens the hamstrings, thus decreasing their tension. Your coach has a good eye.

The cue “cut it off” is simple, but then it helps to have the coach be there so that he can give immediate feedback on each rep in case they get too high. I often will make a noise indicating when the person should start the ascent, and if that doesn’t work I’ll use a tactile cue on their butt at proper depth. If that doesn’t work, I’d set them up in the position without a bar on their back to show them the correct depth. The whole process takes less than two minutes.

59 thoughts on “Q&A – 4”

  1. Justin, thanks mainly to you&this site, got with an oly lifting coach.

    Will be reading this post tommorow, have to mobb it to yesterday’s podcast with the doc.

  2. On my third cycle of 5/3/1, back to week one. I’m finally understanding the point of the program, that is to push the reps on the last set of each. I felt really good today, considering that I’m starting a new night job as an EMS dispatcher and have been totaling 4-5 hours of sleep a night because of training and 12 hour ride-outs.

    Squat- 5×120, 5×140, 10×160
    Bench- 5×70, 5×85, 11×95 – I felt really ballsy and wanted to get that eleventh rep.

    I also tried my first Flying Dutchman at In-N-Out Burger. IT WAS AMAZING.

  3. “Along with some other tweaks, it is also very good at reducing body fat and gaining muscle.”

    Can you elaborate on the tweaks made to the paleo diet to accomplish this? Was thinking about getting Robb Wolf’s book, do you recommend it?

    I’ve only read parts, but would like to read the whole thing. The “tweaks” I was referring to are probably not in there. It’s basic stuff I’ve talked about before like “carbs at breakfast and around workout, not at night or before bed” kinda stuff. Maybe some mild fasting info (still learning about this).

    –Justin

  6. Justin, I have something of a TM question.

    I know there should be a 30kg/65lb difference between a volume day and intensity for the squat.

    But what should difference be for the press?

    I’m thinking around 85% of the top weight with the emphasis on driving the top weight up. I’ve been thinking in terms of percentages on all this stuff lately help standardize it a little better, especially for women. Keep in mind that would be the upper limit of the volume.

    However, I don’t like the alternate press/bench set up and talk about some other organizations in Part 2.

    –Justin

  7. PR’s this week:
    SQ – 355×5
    DL – 420×5
    BP – 230×5
    Pendlay Row – 210×5

    As for progress I’ve made this year, I started lifting for the first time back in July. Been consistently chugging along on a 5×5/3×5 LP. Starting 5RM lifts were 90/155/145/240 (Press/BP/SQ/DL). I’m on track to hit 210/300/440/575 1RM by Christmas.

  9. Many PRs:
    Squat: 360 7×1; 285 5×3
    Bench: 270 7×1; 215 5×3
    OHP: 150 6×1; 120 4×3
    Deadlift: 405 5×1; 325 3×3
    Row: 215 3×5

    I completed my second week of Hepburn. It’s really heating up! These singles then pump workouts take a long time but they’re basically enjoyable.

    Fiance completed her first week of her LP. She’s diesel and had near-perfect form on her first try of each lift.

    Food wise, I ate a lot of sausage this week–both brats and hot italian–maybe too much. It was on sale.

  10. PRs for the week:

    Power clean:
    1 x 75 kg
    3 x 70 kg

    Clean and jerk:
    75 kg, PR on the jerk

    Front squat:
    1 x 90 kg

    Press:
    1 x 107 lbs

    Bench:
    1 x 130 lbs (haven’t benched since February and not really planning to start benching again)

    Um, this has been a pretty cool year. At Masters Nationals in April, I went 45/47/50 on the snatch and 52/57/60 on the jerk. I was coming off a neck injury, and I wasn’t sure what was going to happen after that. Pretty damn happy with my current numbers. I’ve brought my base strength up a lot, and it’s kind of cool to have my old PRs as minimums now.

    The last three or four months have been exceptionally awesome since I switched to Bulgarian programming. I owe Jim Moser and Rip big time for that.

    Neato. Keep on keepin’ on.

    –Justin

  11. I will be going for a pr’s tomorrow but I had a buddy over last night and managed to hit a few prs with him as well. 115 c and j, pr city and well on my way to hit 100 /120 @85 by January 1st. My snatch is around 93 or 94 so I need more work in that but I think consistency is the key for these lifts. I also narrowly missed a 118 clean, was standing up and right near the top it just slipped out of my fingers. Thats pretty wild to me as the quick lifts have always been awful for me due to my lack of explosiveness in general.

    question
    Anyone have any experience with ice baths? My legs are sore as hell from the last two days (maxing out and incorporating back off sets) and I want to crush it tmr and I have a half day of work today so I have some time for good recovery methods- suggestions?

    Ice bath won’t hurt. It’s definitely an experience, especially if it goes up to mid back. In football we’d get in for a minute, then go back to the shower. Maybe for three dunks.

    Except it was a big trash can we climbed in.

    –Justin

  12. Bench 118lbs 1×5. I adjusted my setup and have toned down the lumbar extension and focused just on thoracic. This set felt so. fucking. EASY that I kept adding up the weights to make sure that I had loaded it correctly. I probably could have hit 8 reps, but I am paranoid about going off-plan and “running my dick into the ground”. 120 is riiiiiiiight there, baby. So close. Eeeeeee!!

    I am still waiting for my belt (that I ordered a month ago) to arrive. I dunno who this Bob guy is at “Bob’s Belts”, but he certainly likes to take his sweet fucking time. Sheesh!

    @TBone – Dang, 107 press is serious business! Congrats!

    Sweet. I didn’t expect that changing your lumbar/sacral over extension would significantly help, but it makes sense, especially if you’re constantly driving through your heels.

    –Justin

  14. regarding benzc’s question about lats and olympic lifting:

    sweet lats definitely help you lift better. Mostly, because they give you an appearance of being wide, thick, solid, tight and thus boosts your confidence to slay kilos.

    Also, they help to keep the bar close when lifting it off the floor, which is what coaches yell at noobs probably the most often.

    and lastly, the feeling of a sick lat pump is unmatched. This is why every oly gym worth their salt has a lat pulldown machine

    Yeah, the “keep bar close” thing. I usually think this is common knowledge, but I still have to teach it occasionally, especially with girls.

    –Justin

  15. Today’s PR:
    Squat 5×5 – 290lb

    This year has been a great year for my fiance and I and lifting. I started a LP in July and have been doing it since, started squats with bare bar to work on form (never done squats) and have been on a pretty consistent path with two deloads so far. My fiance started her LP 3 weeks ago and has been doing great, she’s a regular reader at 70sbig (I’m working on getting her to comment). We’ve both always worked out but never focused on strength, now we’re both addicted to it and it’s going great.

    Side note – my dad’s even started the program, he started two weeks after me and so far he’s lost over 30lbs and is working his way to squatting 225lb 5×5. Not bad for a 55yr old dad who just started squatting and seriously working out. Don’t worry he’s still a full adult male at 230lb.

  16. HAHAHA when ellee posted “Eeeeeeee!” it caused me to laugh for the past 4 minutes.

    Ok no dicking around. 385×5 Squat and 435×5 Dead. It will happen to-fucking-day I dont care what I have to do to get them.

  18. PR’d my 3×5 bench (twice) and 1rm press this week. Been a long time coming. Hope the shoulder can stay together and I can continue PRs for awhile. Squat is coming back around slowly and purposefully. Pulled 495 for a couple singles, so my dead’s not too far off where I want it to be. Need to focus on sweet fucking lats, though.

    PS: Kick cancer in the balls. Donate doll hairs to mobro.co/jacobcloud

    I’m considering doing something reckless for fundraising purposes, as I have a single pity doll hair so far. Suggestions mildly encouraged.

  19. Cloud, you should start by changing your pic to one of you as The Dude. Your current pic is confusing since I’m not sure if you’re a surfer, a mountaineer, or just trying be like Joaquin Phoenix.

  22. Justin – thanks for responding! Tonight, I’ll grab a coach to watch my squats tonight & cue on depth, hopefully ingrain that feeling. Please keep the Friday Q&A’s going, I always learn a lot. Very thoughtful stuff.

    No training PRs, as I’m just on the second week of Starting Strength. I need more speed on my squats, but I’ll straighten out form basics (like depth) before shooting for a wicked bounce.

    Also, finally listened to the first Pendlay podcast, and I gotta say: single best explanation of the state of U.S. weightlifting.

  24. I’ve often heard turn the elbows out for a stronger overhead position in the snatch. That would require internal rotation of the shoulder, right? But you disagree?

    In the rack position you turn the inside of the elbow up, and that’s external rotation.

    At the starting position, you can turn the inside of the elbows in/down to help with the internal rotation needed to keep the bar close.

    Getting into those two things would have made my answer longer.

    –Justin

  26. Thanks for the explanation Justin. I think I need to focus on pushing the knees out more. For some reason I’m good at doing that in the squat but not so much deadlifting.

  27. Definitely havent been spending enough time on 70s Big lately!!! Thats going to change!

    Some recent PRs for me

    Squat 1RM – 405 lb
    Deadlift 1RM – 445 lb
    Bench press – 255 x 3 – I dont even know what my 1RM is any more!
    Squat 3RM – 355 lb
    Deadlift 3RM – 405 lb
    Just this week Deadlift 5RM – 375 lb

    I have been on Crossfit Football for a while now, mostly only doing the SWoDs, I love that program!

    Love the link to TTMJ where John talks about training for excellence, not mediocrity!!!! Mr. Welbourn could grow a moustache on a rock with the poser of his mind!

    I work on an H2S site, so a ‘stache is out of the question for me – but my best friend’s wife just had her thyroid removed becuse of cancer cells, so my wife and I have been doing some cooking and stuff for them, fighting that shit at home! Looking to free up some dough for your team – times are tough right now though, will do what I can!

    What’s a H2S site?

    –Justin

  29. Conditioning question: In the most recent podcast with Glenn Pendlay, he said 5 minute kettlebell snatches are about all you need. My gym doesn’t have kettlebells, so if I do conditioning there I’ll have to use dumbbells, but I might buy a kettlebell or two to condition at home (shirtless, in front of my wife). Either way, what’s a good weight to use to get a proper conditioning dose without destroying my recovery? I was thinking of going with the weights used in the TSC but wasn’t sure if those would be too much to recover from.

    Vitals and some lift numbers in case that’s relevant or helpful:
    5’10” 225 lb 26 y.o. male, deadlift PR 355×5, 275 lb squat, 145 lb press. Still on SS LP.

    Also, Glenn said not to buy kettlebells at wal-mart, so where the hell should I buy them? I may not have a choice where I live.

    KBs from Wal-Mart will suck major donkey dong and will fall apart. There are many websites, especially with the increased CF popularity, to buy them from that will deliver. If I were getting a first KB, I’d get a 1.5 pood/24kg/53lb bell. A decently strong girl or weak man could use a 1 pood/16kg/32lb bell. Something like a 2 pood/32kg/70lb bell would be a bit much at first, especially if you’re doing it one armed.

    Glenn’s company Muscle Driver sells bells, so take that into consideration.

    –Justin

  30. After reading the info about deadlifting, it makes a lot more sense to me now as to why to use a narrower stance. However, I have pretty short arms compared to most people my height (around 2-3 inches give or take), and a narrow stance makes the pull off the ground very difficult for me.

    Is there a certain setup/stance I should do in regards to this, or just work on getting stronger off the floor, and/or add in more RDL’s? I really want to get my deadlift up to and exceeding my squat for once.

    Nobody has shorter arms than me, and the best thing you can do is to get as narrow a grip as possible. Implement what you read here. I also do not wear weightlifting shoes when pulling anymore because of my short arms, so maybe you should do the same.

    If you still feel worse off the floor, then I’m almost certain it’s a lack of strength/musculature in the important structures. You won’t train them efficiently with wide grips or stances.

    –Justin

  31. Justin, for RDL’s do you recommend wearing oly shoes, or going with a flatter sole or barefoot? Just wondering where the focus is really on the PC if the elevated heel is ideal.

    I’ve been thinking about this too, and I’m not sure if it makes a difference or not. If you try barefoot, let me know if there’s a difference. There would at least be a difference in the bar travel — it should be a little more shallow without the heel.

    –Justin

  34. I would personally like to take this time to call out my fellow members of the 70’s big Movember Cancer Ass Smashing team. Those of you with 0 dollars.

    Cmon guy.

    At least donate a dollar. We could easily be one of the top 500 teams in the nation if we eached scratched 50 dollars a piece by the end of the month.

  36. Attention shoppers: store brand bacon at Giant is currently $2/pound. That’s right, two dollars per pound!!! I don’t know if that’s nationwide but I certainly stocked up. They’ve also got spicey breakfast sausage for $1 per pound! Do yourself a favor today.

  39. Form PR:

    My Squats and Deadlifts are looking a hell of a lot better (thanks Justin for the tips on Squats). Got a belt this week and Squatting in it just feels soo fucking good. I could almost swear it’s increased my proprioceptive awareness but I don’t know through what mechanism that’d be possible.

    Tried push pressing but my flexibility isn’t great. My wrists were so bent they started to hurt a lot.

  47. @Stroup- congrats on the PR dude!

    Noteable Lifts this week
    385×4 PR
    455×3 (getting heavy again finally)

    Squat is doing great on TM setup. Really interested in the alternate setup for upper body lifts than alternating weeks. I had solid progress/maintanence with 10s on press and heavy bench… but as soon as I drop down to 5s/triples on both I start to stall again. Also, thanks for answering my question last week Justin! Really appreciate all the help.

  49. Uhh let’s see press 150 4×3, 1×4. Squat 285 5×5, snatch 135 5×3, bench 225 5×5. Deadlifted for first time in three weeks. I read this post before I lifted so I went narrow on grip and stance and of course it worked like a fucking charm. Prs in dead soon to come

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