I don’t really have any recent lifting videos that would be worth watching, but here’s a video of me doing rows with a 150 pound dumbbell for 20 reps.
Usually there won’t be as many fucking videos of myself, but I’m finishing up a project today and haven’t had time for any other material. If you have a problem with that, then watch this.
Additionally Brent and I will be in Monterey for a lifting workshop on July 9. Brent will just be there, giving you indiscriminate looks and I’ll coaching lifting technique. Then we’ll go to eat and hear Brent give us a fucking preface on his diet and training, implying that we need to take care of him like Gizmo from Gremlins.
Let’s get a good convo going in the comments. First I want to point out that I write and do a lot of weird stuff in posts or videos that no one ever comments on. I mainly do it just to see if anybody will say anything, but you guys apparently just accept it as normal. When my mom filmed the “helpful mobility vid“, she goes, “Don’t you want to comb your hair and put on some shorts?” I didn’t hesitate to say, “Absolutely not. If anything it’s better this way.”
Sick Kroc Rows, brah.
I’m not sure what we’re supposed to be starting a good convo on.
In terms of “weird videos”, you need to OD on that shit like the Swole Patrol. More Zubaz, more patriotism, more power metal and tap solos.
They have their impressive niche; I don’t think I can touch that.
I never really liked calling them Kroc rows, or calling any exercise after someone. There are exceptions, but the terms were coined in the 70s at the latest (Arnold press, sotts press, zercher, etc.). Thoughts?
–Justin
Definitely more Swole Patrol. It’s better than cowbell.
Conversate on this. What can I do better?
Tweaking Oly technique via vid is not something that’s easy, because there are subtle differences in how people teach things, what they emphasize, how the set up should be, etc. All things considered, this looks pretty good, but you’re just…slooooow. The second pull is weak. A lot of coaches will talk about “getting under the bar with speed”. I’m someone who will drill that the second pull (or jump) should be fast to get the bar to go up with aggressiveness. Getting under the bar is a necessary skill, but I’d consider it more of an advanced thing if someone hasn’t mastered the skill of pulling the trigger and having an explosive hip extension (which you do not have). In the event I was coaching someone, I’d have them be controlled off the floor and have “speed after the knees”. But I’m not a top level Oly coach — if you wanted Pendlay’s opinion you could ask him on his forum.
I will say this: I found it curious that your second pull wasn’t great, so I watched some other vids. You have a pretty sweet deadlift 530×2, yet you clearly aren’t doing the lift in a way that is using your hamstrings. It’s more of a quad push, get it past your knees, reflex the knees, and extend the knees while straightening your back — a series of movements that does everything to remove tension from the hamstrings. The Canadian workshop attendees know what I’m talking about when I reference this. In general, I see a correlation with slow pullers and lack of hamstring development or strength. This is why I think the low bar squat was a good foundation for me for weightlifting — I’m generally more explosive than average and it developed my posterior chain. It did not help me develop a foundation for the receiving positions in the snatch and clean (this is where high or font squatting becomes prevalent).
In any case, I see that you aren’t using your hamstrings on the several deadlift videos I watched, and I also see that you’re slow in the second pull of your snatch and clean. I don’t think this is unrelated. RDLs are your friend as well as drilling the fuck out of “speed after the knees” on regularly Oly lifting (assuming it’s your primary focus). But, again, Pendlay will probably give different advice because this is what he does on a regular basis.
Edit: Your 365×5 squat vid wasn’t terrible, but I can see some forward bottom positioning on the first few reps, and then a little bit of chest dropping on some. If the chest drops, the angle of the torso goes forward. This can be caused by the weight shifting forward at the bottom (which I just said you were sorta doing), but also the hamstrings not holding the back angle down as they are simultaneously extending the hips — in other words, keeping the tension on the hamstrings. I point this out because it is a subtle indication of your hamstring issue, but it wasn’t as bad as I thought it was going to be on the squat.
–Justin
Justin, When you open your closet is it just full of red tanks?
Haha, yeah that red tank has made its appearance several times. I have six total I think. The walmart tanks are the training ones though.
–Justin
I feel a Kroc Row is different than a single arm row.
In my mind, a one arm row is a pretty strict row, where there’s little body english.
A Kroc row insinuates rowing that fucker, body english be damned.
Matter of fact, I think Wendler discusses that (the momentum usage for Kroc rows) in 5/3/1, or somewhere else.
Well, I still consider it a DB row. Doing strict rows with only 80 pounds or so would a) be pussy, b) not do anything, and c) be inferior to what I can do with a 150 pound dumbbell. In other words, it’s just a bodybuilding or conventional fitness thing to do, and I don’t do shitty stuff. The strength and muscular gain I get out of using the heaviest DB in the room trumps anything I could do with a lighter DB. I know you agree, Jay, but I’m just clarifying why I don’t consider them to be any different.
There are, however, some videos available where people have a shitty ROM for the sake of doing reps with a heavy DB. Kroc isn’t typically one of those guys. In this video he pulls the bell as high as it will go (the bell hits his chest). This guy is probably much stronger than me, but is clearly an ego lifter who doesn’t hit half the ROM of Kroc. Compare his video to Matt’s video with 300 — he gets a better ROM.
–Justin
I notice the weird stuff but haven’t ever felt the need to comment on it.
I’m a fan of the “looking away from the camera, then snapping to like you’re awakening from a coma” thing though.
The weird stuff is half the reason I come here. I thought if I said anything you might stop.
Question: how does a trainee deal with people who are convinced that the volume of meat one needs to eat in order to fuel recovery and get 70’s Big is massively unhealthy and going to kill the trainee? My normal response is to not give a shit, especially since it’s mostly coming from naggy 90’s small weaklings, but I’d like to know what techniques others use to combat this constant menace.
Have they explained how it’s going to kill them? The first thing would be to debunk whatever stereotypical shit that they’ve been taught. How you debunk it will determine whether they trust your explanation, so don’t be a dick.
–Justin
I find it hard to watch that video and a couple others without giggling because that exact combo of blue short shorts and red cotton tank is my 65-year-old dad’s go-to workout ensemble, and you and he could not be any more different.
Also, I notice the price of the workshop has doubled since I went the first time. Is that because you’re twice as handsome now, or is it because Brent will be there?
Justin, THANK YOU for taking the time to help.
I do agree. Good call, Justin. Just different names for the same exercise, I suppose.
However…
If you can’t handle a (for sake of argument, and not you in particular) a 150 lb DB and complete a full ROM, then why bother? Drop the weight, then grip and rip.
However, clearly you’re using it properly (the 150), so you’re good.
But in general, if someone can’t do a full ROM and is half squatting, rowing so the “bell” doesn’t touch the chest, or whatever the case may be; throw ego to the side, and do the shit properly.
The explanations I get are mostly that “the FDA recommends…” and “that much fat is unhealthy” type stuff. I initially responded with “the FDA is not always right” and that “it’s not conclusive that cholesterol causes heart disease” to which I was told “so you’re smarter than the FDA?” and “yes it is.” At that point I just walked off. Again, I don’t give a shit, but these are people I work with and see almost every day, so it gets annoying after awhile.
Are they training? If not, it’s not worth your time. I would ask them, “Have you seen a meta analysis of the ‘research’ that would support your fat and cholesterol hypothesis? Have you bothered to look at the history of research in this field? Do you normally blindly follow authority figures without asking questions? Do you trust that your government is doing everything correctly 100% of the time? Do you not think it’s odd that in the last 50 years, obesity rates have skyrocketed while the government recommends a 70% carbohydrate diet? Have you ever looked at case studies of other populations that don’t eat what a normal American does? Do you not see this really cool guy that runs this website eating ribs and doing dumbbell rows who has a resting heart rate that is almost equal to your age? Do you even know what happens to food after you swallow it? Do you have the slightest clue as to how food is converted into energy? These are all relevant questions that you haven’t bothered to ask, sir.”
–Justin
A hot button issue ’round the web seems to be KStar’s more “toes forward” squat cues.
I personally can’t accommodate ANY toe angle less than 45 degrees due to absurdly long femurs.
I probably don’t have enough hip mobility, but time is limited and I’d rather lift than stretch.
Your femur length won’t have to do with toe angle, but stance width. You probably are tight, and in a goofy position because I’d assume you have a shorter torso. In any case, he’s not saying pointed straight forward, but right outside of that. 45 degrees isn’t even a recommendation by Rippetoe in SS — that’s the widest threshold while he says the average will be 30 degrees.
–Justin
Justin, seminar wise, got any plans to do one in Philly?
You get to hang out with Bony if you do decide on it.
By the way, for people that dont have his number yet:
215-300-6058
I laughed at his number being put up. Give him a text, day or night.
I don’t have plans to go to Philly yet, although hanging at Greyskull is something I want to do eventually.
–Jusitn
Someone hasn’t made it until they’ve got an exercise named after them. I think you should probably find a way to name some exercises after you, or the least, Brent.
I don’t want an exercise named after me, brah. I just explained how I don’t like it.
–Justin
Femur length -> stance width -> toe angle
My femurs are just barely longer than my entire torso.
And I’m saying shoving them out isn’t directly correlated with your toe angle, but your hip “mobility”. You may need to point your toes out RIGHT NOW to get your knees out, but that doesn’t mean it’s optimal.
Also, increasing stance width does not insinuate that the toes will point out more.
–Justin
Just realized I’ve been squatting at a nearly 45 degree toe angle. Whoops. My squat was initially the strongest aspect of my LP but in the last two weeks it’s really gotten janky and I’ve been confounded in my attempts to diagnose and correct the root problems.
Maybe I should take a protractor with me next time I go to the gym.
That’s not necessary, but toes out 45 degrees may be part of the problem. It may not be, though.
–Justin
“Also, increasing stand width does not insinuate that the toes will point out more.
–Justin”
It doesn’t?
I had a typo there: stand = stance. In any case, no, it doesn’t. It’s for the same reason that I can increase the width of my hands on a the bar getting ready to bench press, yet my fingers will still point in the same direction.
It’s possible to have your toes in a 30 degree angle with a stance that is 8 inches wide between the heels. You can widen that stance to 12 inches and still maintain the same toe angle (these distances don’t mean anything and are used for the sake of example). Stance width is mutually exclusive from toe angle. Your stance width does not increase when you point your toes out more since your heels will remain in the same place when pointing your toes in different positions.
–Justin
But isn’t the goal to reduce knee torsion? Or does increased mobility somehow eliminate that need?
I should add, isn’t the goal to reduce knee torsion *to prevent ligament damage and facilitate squatting injury-free?*
I don’t know what you’re asking. Are you asking if the toes out with knees out is the thing that reduces knee torsion?
Even if that’s what you’re asking, it doesn’t really relate to our existing conversation about the stance width being mutually exclusive with toe angle. The convo before that had to do with toe positioning, and you certainly don’t need a 45 degree toe angle to reduce knee torsion. In fact, knee torsion (or twisting forces at the knee itself) won’t be effected by toe positioning all that much. I’m capable of shoving my knees out with a 10 degree toe angle. When you are unable to shove your knees out, this produces the torsion. I see more situations of “toes being out near 45 degree angle with the knees not shoved out in the same angle”, which produces a medial stress.
But specifically my last point is that a degree change of 20 to 30 (from 10 degrees to 30 or 40) is not that significant to have a huge effect on the knee in someone with good mobility. My original point (that sparked the discussion) is that someone with less hip mobility will need to have the toes out more than someone with better mobility in order to have an adequate ‘knees out’ position for an adequate squat.
–Justin
Might you call it a Kipping DB Row?
Never.
–Justin
Haha
Ok, I think we’re on the same page now.
In essence though, shoving the knees out with the toes pointing anywhere but in line with them is going to introduce torsion. Mechanically speaking, I don’t see any way it can’t.
Not necessarily. This may be the case with you, but it isn’t with me for example. If I place my toe angle at about 15 degrees (arbitrary), I’m still capable of shoving the knees out in which the femur and tibia have an even relationship. Also, when compared to a 45 degree angle toe position, there is much more muscle activation in the posterior thigh, particularly the hamstrings while the 45 degree angle thing (which I have never done because it isn’t recommended anyway) is primarily an adductor stretch with distal quad out of the bottom. I haven’t mechanically reasoned this out yet as to how toe angle would have an effect on this, but this difference is significant.
From SS and whatnot, I was always under the impression that those forces were not ideal, and lining the toes up with knees was the solution (utilizing the knee joint as a “hinge” as it’s designed).
My anatomical knowledge is not superb, I hope this makes sense.
“In fact, knee torsion (or twisting forces at the knee itself) won’t be effected by toe positioning all that much.”
How is this determined? In my mind that is the only factor. I can understand that the effect might be far less than I previously thought.
Mostly because the tibia and femur can still remain in line even if they are pushed outside of the toe angle when there is a regular arch in the foot (if the arch collapses, it changes the articulation of the calcaneus (foot bone) and the tibia (shin bone)) and will place the tibia in a different AKA mechanically disadvantageous position, given the anatomy — and this is all assuming good mobility. I surmise this has something to do with the “improved torque at the hip” that Kelly Starrett talks about, although I don’t see how it accomplishes this and still want to talk to him about it.
–Justin
Don’t take Brent Shrugs away from him.
@JMOvechkin Justin was wearing a red tank?
@Justin
Matt’s video with 300 looks like more of a one arm clean hi-pull or an RDL with arm bend at the top than a row. His back reaches 10-15 degrees from the vertical, why not just do real one arm cleans or one arm deadlifts?
This is why I rarely do rows, they remind me of high squats, pushed presses and my friend who rows “365 for reps.” And I’ve never seen a DB heavier than 125 irl.
Well, the heaviest I’ve seen is 150 in three different gyms. I know that based on the musculature that is exceptionally sore right now (middle trap, rhomboids, external rotators, probably teres major, and full belly of the lat) that I’m getting something done, and the video shows a full range of motion (aided by English). Since it’s a heavy implement, and I’m not diminishing ROM all that bad, I see it as something that can strengthen that musculature. I see them being useful for people that don’t have upper back strength or musculature — like girls especially.
But, with that being said, I’m not eager to duct tape any additional weight on for the sake of adding weight, but I do see them relevant to upper back strength assuming they are done within reason. I agree with you on the points of Matt though. He’s just putting on a show for the expo people anyway.
–Justin
I’m impressed that none of these dumb yanks have realised it’s 150×21.
PEACE
Did I do 21 in the vid? I didn’t count. All I know is that the vid stopped before I did one last rep (I stay there paused for a second).
–Justin
I definitely noticed the weirdness in the videos. I was actually wondering if perhaps you were home schooled because the weirdness seems to mirror the social awkwardness of someone who didn’t get a chance to develop normal social skills until later in life.
I think everyone who has met me can agree that I’m perfectly sociable, and if anything that’s my strength in coaching.
–Justin
@Justin
A lot of stuff you do that might be “weird” I would view as normal like short shorts. Maybe we have similar way of thinking or something though. I really thought it was weird when I read “A Message to Garcia” and then you wrote a post on that story a few days later.
Also I think an exercise named after someone is cool. It is their legacy that can be passed down from generation to generation.
Any word on a 70s Big challenge?
@Antigen
I sent you a facebook message a couple weeks ago asking about your weight change from like last year until now and never got a reply. Did you ever see it? It was around when you posted about your pull up challenge. I think that is shitty that they didn’t count a few reps.
I forgot to mention that you are the only one that has recently commented on the ‘weird stuff’ (and it’s standard ops anyway for you). I was thinking about that as I was pre-planning the post in my head.
–Justin
@television
I thought I counted 21 but wasn’t going to watch it again to check. (not a yank, but a canuck)
I hate when assholes stand right in front of the db racks to do their workout, blocking usage of the db’s from the rest of the gym.
I lol’d. ‘Twas a single set, brah. And some girl was doing the same thing right before that, preventing me from getting to the 150s.
In this same workout (but earlier), I was pressing my last triple at 210. This fuck head walked right in front of me to grab some plates off this rack. The second rep was hard, so I thought 3 was gonna be a holy grinder, but I was so pissed at the guy I said, “OH THAT’S COOL, WALK RIGHT IN FRONT OF SOMEONE AS THEIR LIFTING” as I locked the press out.
–Justin
also, today could be a good day to post the video I messaged you on facebook. Am I a bad person for laughing at it?
question about seated good mornings:
I seem to find conflicting explanations with regard to whether or not the back is allowed to round. I am assuming when programmed in a weightlifting program, its supposed to look like this? : http://bit.ly/lVvDhk or http://www.sportivnypress.com/documents/The_secret_exercise.jpg
which seems to suggest the back may round slightly, and light weights are used.
I don’t like good mornings much at all and will consider them a more advanced exercise (I’d suggest RDLs before GMs). Those two dudes are definitely getting max hip flexion out of it though. In any case, perhaps the back position depends on getting into total hip flexion?
–Justin
Here’s a question, how much accessory work do you (Justin) do on a regular basis, and how do you fit it into a given week? (how many days do you lift)
just curious.
My training was shoddy for a few weeks because I was travelling. When it’s regular style, I train three days a week (any more would be difficult to logistically handle). The “accessory work” is limited to RDLs, weighted pull-pus, DB rows, or BB rows (the first two are always present).
–Justin
Gant suggested Krocs for grip work (when grip was limiting my DL) …but then I learned the hook grip. Justin uses no straps for his rows/krocs (right?) but I hook grip Krocs so as to handle more weight (120s for sets of 10).
Justin – any thoughts on grip strength? Do you use straps? Hook grip? or are you just a beast?
I used straps with the 150. I’ve done 100×25 with no grip in Canada a couple weekends ago. I’m not using it for grip work though.
–Justin
one handed barbell row? get tough.
Hey Justin, what’s your training looking like now? Haven’t seen you post any weightlifting vids since that 120 shirtless snatch, and that other dumbbell row vid. Are you still training full snatch and full clean or what?
Not really since I moved after nationals last year. I had the hip injury in March which prevented me from pulling or squatting anything at all for about two months.
–Justin
So here’s my throwaway comment which is completely unrelated.
Everyone should have a flashlight in their glovebox. I’m talking a little LED one, probably of decent quality and with a spare set of batteries.
I think owning a leatherman is a pretty clever thing to do and I try and keep on one or near my person at all times.
I also carry a decent flashlight on my keys.
A good pen is also always handy to have, keep at least one of these in the car with a small notebook.
Learn how to change a battery and check your oil. Know how to change a tire and probably practice it at least once. Know where your coolant is in your car.
Like weight training, all of these things will generally make you a more useful human.
Where the hell has the Judoka Lawyer been?
He’s teaching a lot of judo and doing man stuff.
–Justin
Probably too late, but…
I agree that the femur and tibia can be in line without a parallel toe angle.
However, if the toe angle is anything but parallel, torsion will occur. That much is, in my mind, mechanically unavoidable. If it’s comfortable for people squatting big weights, it probably doesn’t matter nearly as much as I though (if at all).
You said you agreed, then said “if toe angle is anything but parallel”. Did you mean parallel to direction that the anterior face of the knee is facing? Or parallel to the line of the femur, which would be the same thing? Because you just said you agreed that if the knees are shoved out, perhaps wider than toe angle, that you agreed everything would be in line.
Additionally, these structures differ in that they aren’t just experiencing a load in one position, but more importantly the load is distributed throughout the soft tissue (ligaments, tendons, muscles) before before it gets to the bones. Let’s assume what I said earlier was true (about the hamstring activation being higher with a more toes in position but NOT straight forward), then this would be a very good reason to not have a wide to angle. I do want to point out that the standard recommendation by Rippetoe in SS is 30 degrees, and 45 is the upper limit and not standard. I point that out because a 30 degree toe angle is not that different than a 20 to 10 degree to angle. 45 shouldn’t be done anyway, and this discussion began to point out why there is no torsion at the knee when it is inside a 45 degree angle with someone that has long femurs and better mobility.
–Justin
Hey Ma, could you record a video of me in my underwear for some guys on the internet to watch? Thanks.
-Justin
Well played, Puke.
FWIW, the ribs video was very odd. Furthermore, ’round here your girlfriend’s interjection would be considered rather misogynistic.
I’m always a fan of the “Check out this badass beard” videos.
I hearby recommend Sir Ian Anderson,circa 1972-1985, of Jethro Tull, Lord of the lands north of Handrian’s Wall, Master of the Minor Key, in the Dominion of Strategic Modal Modulation, to be considered for these excellent beard posts. Check out this video of him in 1982 with an ultimate beard and robin hood outlaw outfit. Never before had the flute been badass. Never again will it be.
OK. question. did anyone ever come to a consensus on cotton short shorts? I’ve got a pair of umbros I like a lot, but I’d rather have cotton. for $10, however, the umbros are just fine.
Justin, does your mom make good meatloaf? and/or, do you own nun-chucks?
I’m not really impressed with meatloaf in general and I wish I had nun-chucks. I don’t live at home, fucker.
–Justin
I’ve been doing the 20 rep squat routine and my limiting factor (for now at least) is that my hands go completely to sleep after about rep 15 or 16. They’re tingling pretty good at rep 12 or so. It’s a bit concerning when I can’t feel the weight in my hands anymore.
Is there something causing this? Anything I can do about it? Or just quit whining and deal with it?