Sports are an incredibly important contributor to human nature in our pussified society. The lack of responsibility and risk taking swells to the point where people avoid any kind of competitive activity because of the inherent risk of failure. Participating in sport at any level will replace the necessary competitive edge in an individual and kindle the fire of dedication, hard work, and almost reckless intensity; the stuff of 70’s Big.
But what is a sport? We have the Shrug Thug to inform us about the activities that aren’t a sport (geared lifting, calculus, or fixing a pair of glasses), but what qualifies something to sport status? I always consider sport to encompass the following:
– Individuals or groups participating in a sanctioned competition that has a standard set of rules for achieving victory.
– The competitors (who are human) exhibit physicality
The highlight of the first portion of the definition is “sanction”. Regarding the competitive events, this implies that the type of event, how it is officiated, and how victory can be attained are all inherently known before hand. American football has a rigid set of rules and is played indoors our outdoors, yet it’s known where the game will be played and to what standards the players must perform. Strongman competitions are sanctioned events in that the federation indicates that each competition will have a given number of categories and the types of events that are permitted in each category. The “meet director” in this case will choose the required events from this list and lists them on the registration form. Not only are there x amount of events in y amount of categories, but they are known when the athlete signs up for the event. This is in contrast to CrossFit which is self described as “random”. This doesn’t aim to bash CrossFit, but it’s intentional lack of congruity removes it from the discussion of qualifying as a sport, given the above definition. (I’ve also heard adamant CFers try and make the point that it isn’t any different than strongman competitions, and if strongman is a sport, then CF must be to. Again, since strongman has a rigid method of creating competitions from a pool of listed events (types of pressing, types of deadlifing, types of carrying, etc.), then it is most definitely sanctioned — and thus a sport — while the random CF competition is not.)
Rugby is a sport
Having a standard for achieving victory is obviously important. Victory in sport is inherently not subjective. Basketball, American football, hockey, and baseball all have a point system. When the game ends and your team has more points, you win. Gymnastics and diving are a bit different, yet those judges have a defined set of criteria that they look for in a performance — the fact that we have never cared to look to see what that criteria is doesn’t mean they are judging randomly. This would indicate that cheerleading competitions qualify as a sport while the sideline rah-rah obviously does not.
The second part of the definition is debatable. I think it’s fair to refer specifically to human competitors when discussing sport; I always get pissed when horse racing, chess, or poker is on ESPN (although they do it because it makes them money). Human competitors would also imply that NASCAR, while beloved among plenty of Americans, is not a sport (motor sport is more fitting anyway). However, requiring that “physicality” is necessary for sport status becomes a quantification problem. The term physicality (or the requirement of physical exertion in the competition) is too vague and hard to quantify; I deem this the hole in the definition. Changing this definition would merely serve the definer to eliminate or accept activities that he considers a sport, and that’s not how definitions are made. Nevertheless, I consider it an important distinction; if there was some sort of physicality quantification, then things like golf, darts, or catfish noodling would be reduced to a game or hobby. Consider exploring unique interests like collecting and buying swords from reputable sword websites if you’re looking for interesting hobbies to add a distinctive element to your pastime.
Quantification requires a measurement so that there is an objective distinction in what you intend to say. “Physicality” must be measurable, and the only way I can think to do that is with caloric expenditure relative to the size of an athlete (perhaps a percentage of the basal metabolic rate). If it isn’t done internally, then it must be done with rate of movement. Nevertheless it isn’t something we can implement, but will instead have to debate.
By competing in a sport, as defined above, the competitor is deemed an athlete. People who do not compete in sport are not an athlete, and instead should be considered a trainee (assuming they train). This doesn’t mean that the trainee isn’t athletic, yet athlete is quantified as a sport competitor. This also doesn’t imply that athletes themselves are athletic; there are certain bowlers, golfers, or even some baseball players who aren’t exactly athletic (calling golf and bowling a sport is debatable — see “physicality” quantification above). If someone has played sports previously in their life, are they still considered an athlete? I’m not the one to make that distinction, but if it were up to me I’d say “no” unless they were paid to compete in a sport and still train. In any case, “athlete” is a distinction for a sport competitor. This would eliminate catfish noodlers and CrossFitters alike from “athlete” status. This doesn’t mean they aren’t athletic, yet given the quantifiable definition above, it makes the distinction black and white.
Feel free to debate this topic in the comments. If you’re going to improve my definition or change my mind, you’ll have to provide a dose of logic as I’ve tried to do here. Debating what is or isn’t a sport may be fun, but 70’s Big is primarily interested in getting you to funnel your training into sport whether it be powerlifting, Olympic weightlifting, rugby, or bat fighting. Besides, you’re just a trainee until you do.
moot point now, but I used to race bikes. all different kinds. are endurance athletes exempt? that said, when I did that I had the bmi of a Victoria’s secret model…
Per Section two of the definition requiring physicality, Baseball is not a sport.
“I play real sports…not trying to be the best at exercising.”
-Kenny Powers
Baseball doesn’t require physicality??? Is that a joke?
I’m just now seeing these comments (at this time, there are 32), but baseball is most definitely a sport and the debate thereof is irrelevant. Pretty much any sanctioned league that includes sprinting is a sport, even if it’s sporadic. A case could be made for golf not being a sport, but not baseball. Any anti-baseball-sport guy is just trolling us.
–Justin
Having played high level rugby and college baseball I think the position of catcher qualifies if we are defining caloric expenditure and physical ability as requirements to be labeled an athlete.
Other positions in baseball can lend themselves to more of hand-eye coordination dominant and less physical e.g. pitching and therefore subject to not qualifying.
I guess in baseball any player on the feild at any given time has to exert physicality. Some more than others. There have been many times where I have been exhausted playing second base and then have to lead off hit the next inning and run the bases. Other games or innings not so much.
No sir it is not a joke. I can select an all star baseball team of fat men. Being fat is not a sport.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m just a brutish old rugby player who’s batting mechanics are so fucked I probably couldn’t hit a change-up. However, hand-eye coordination alone does not yield a sport. Otherwise, Wii Bowling is a sport.
I’m also not saying there aren’t a number of highly respectable athletes in baseball. What I’ve noticed is that, typically, the better the athlete, the better the baseball player. However, a high level of athletic prowess and physicality are not requisites in any way for baseball. In fact, a team stacked with C.C. Sabathia’s in the bullpen, and a lineup with fat sluggers could be all the men a club needs. While these men are impressively strong, they are incomplete athletes.
If there are 162 games in a year, it means you’re not expending yourself at a high level or coming into any sort of intense physical contact, and this is my biggest beef with baseball. I would daresay we amend Justin’s definition to include a factor of risk (or this could simply be a subsection of physicality). There is little risk in baseball. It is my opinion that competition requires a high level of risk to our physical well being and demand on our bodies. This doesn’t appear to be the case with a majority of baseball gameplay.
This is all irrelevant, there are plenty risks of injury in baseball. See my earlier comment.
–Justin
Since the Enlightenment politics has often been called war by other mans. I’ve always thought it useful to think of sports as war by other means as well. This is how many sports originated in the first place (lacrosse comes to mind in mid-atlantic/northeast/midwest native America, hurling in ancient Ireland, that insane stick fighting shit in Zulu Africa, etc.). In many cultures waring groups would first try to settle things by sport before resorting to actually purposeful killing of one another. You even see this in lower animal behaviors, like the birds of paradise. The male birds perform athletic feats to meet a specific criteria that the female is looking for and the bird with the best showing gets laid.
A truly great example of the battle that sports is ocurred last night in downtown Washington, DC as the Capitols and Rangers fought a hard game down to the final minute of overtime (GO CAPS!). In playoff hockey penalties for excessively hard hits are the exception rather than the rule and play only stops if the puck goes out of play or for another violation, and then it is only a short pause. That is why I submit that hockey (and it’s grass cousin, lacrosse) are truly the most badass, intense, battle-like team sports, followed by rugby and Australian football and there cousins. American football comes next due to the constant stoppage of play and the damn instant replay timeouts.
Baseball is certainly a sport. As a former catcher I can say I decked my fair share of kids on the field and smacked a few home runs with all my might. It requires brief bouts of physical exertion like sprints, changing direction and coordination, and being stronger is definitely critical. Why else would the level of play have increased so much once the guys really started lifting hard and taking drugs?
I don’t like the war analogy with sports. I don’t get all butt hurt like some people, but I just think it’s naive and comical to associate a sport (which fits under the umbrella of “game”) with war. I have lots of friends who have been in war, and trying to connect the two is pretty much an insult to their friends who died in actual war.
–Justin
I’m surprised it hasn’t come up. Is Bodybuilding a sport? I’m sure many people who frequent this site will agree that bodybuilding is not a sport. We can all agree that bodybuilding is silly and a little weird. The hardest working, strongest, most dedicated bodybuilders readily admit that they’re not that psyched about the whole posing and competing aspect, and that their favorite part of the process is the training and preparation. But I’ll go ahead and call bodybuilding a sport.
In my opinion arguing about the definition of ‘sport’ is a lot about arguing about the definition of ‘art.’ Maybe there are hard distinctions to be made but I think that fretting over them isn’t productive. Instead I try to recognize what is kick-ass and what is not. I don’t care if race walking is a sport while Multi-Ply lifting is not. Bottom line is that the stuff guys like Dave Hoff and Shawn Frankl are doing is a lot cooler than anything a world champion race walker is doing.
I bet someone “in the know” on bodybuilding could explain what supposed sanctioned, objective way physiques are judged, but it doesn’t seem to be constant. For example, isn’t it known that the Olympia looks to larger mass while the Arnold looks at conditioning and detail? That is a discrepancy in consistency. More importantly, bodybuilding lacks the “physicality” inherent in my definition, so I would not include it for this reason. And just because there is physical exertion in training doesn’t mean that it qualifies as a sport since the training is, by definition, not the sport.
–Justin
Also, marathon running for the purpose of completing the race rather than running it fast and trying to win is not a sport. Without even considering whether it’s hardy and badass to move at far far less than your top speed for almost 30 miles, we can agree that the top tier guys who can keep a 5 min mile pace for the whole distance are true athletes competing in a sport. But your typical “I’m goign to close down all of the artery streets in your city when you need to go somewhere on Saturday so that I can ‘run’ a half marathon in six hours and “complete” my 45th ‘race'” and then never mention whether or not they’re even trying to run faster than before are not athletes competing in a sport.
This is also irrelevant. That means that the guy doing Oly meets as a hobby and who is not every going to have the ability to win is doing the same thing as the marathoner in your example. Does that mean that weightlifting isn’t a sport? No. You’re 0 for 2 today, Maslow.
I know that we all don’t think running is worth a fuck, but the actual running of races is a sport. That sport doesn’t have as much rules or guidelines — you have a location and a finish line. Whoever gets their first wins. The difference between this is and a non-sport is that the locations are known months/years ahead of time and the training is funneled to that event, whether it be in the streets of Boston or Californian mountains.
–Justin
C.C. Sabathia’s average pitch count = 15.5 pitches/inning.
A baseball game = 9 innings
Assuming a pitcher (or combined pitchers) throws a full game = 9*15.5 = 139.5 pitches
The catcher has to “risk” physical contact 139.5 times per game with baseballs traveling at 90+ mph. (not including homeplate collisions, foul balls, or bats)
Assuming the average catcher plays 138 games out of 162 (like Joe Mauer of the Twins)thats 138*139.5 = 19,251 times “risking” phyical harm, while keeping an extremely
high level of mental accuity both behind and at the plate.
This doesnt include the spring training games or additional practice either.
If you dont think stopping a 90+ mph baseball isnt physical harm you are a fool.
This doesnt include the hours of squatting, and having to then sprint around bases
(or hit homeruns, so you can trot. ha)
Yes, baseball players can look like C.C. Sabathia, or David Wells, I’m not arguing
that point, merely demonstrating logic. Besides, there are a few lifters that unless you saw them squatting 600+, people might think they are “fat”.
And we can all agree that steriods are vital to some baseball players and lifters too.
I’m with Maslow, Baseball is a sport.
We got the crazy baseball stat guys out now! Haha.
–Justin
Being fat does not prevent a person from being an athlete, there are plenty of fat bastards in powerlifting (which is a sport).
yes but powerlifting is more interesting than counting the white pixels in the static of a dead tv channel, same can’t be said for baseball
Baseball is most definitely a sport. Sean’s reasoning behind it not being a sport is pretty weak. I would love to hear his all-star team of fat baseball players (You can’t have a list of designated hitter, 1st baseman, and pitchers and call that a team). I don’t see a whole lot of 300 pounders playing center field or shortstop in the MLB.
There are plenty of fat men in most sports. Is football not a sport because there are 350 lb DT and offensive lineman? Powerlifting and Strongman have more than their fair share of fat men. I’m sure even Sean’s chosen sport of rugby has fat participants. That is not to say that these fat athletes aren’t incredibly strong and athletic, because most of them are, including the fat baseball players. Having fat participants (even fat participants that excell) does not disqualify something from being a sport.
Athleticism is a combination of speed, power, explosiveness, agility, coordination, and spatial awareness, and baseball requires every one of those things. Combine that with two teams competing for a known objective (to score the most runs) and subject to a set of rules and you have the best sport of all time.
Your opinion doesn’t invalidate the definition presented above. How interesting it is has nothing to do with whether it is a sport.
the definition is fucking irrelevant because it’s so painfully clear that baseball is NOT a sport that any argument contrary to that point is clearly an attempt at trolling which quite frankly i’m above addressing
Baseball benefits from speed, hand-eye coordination and strength. The game has a score for a set number of innings and is sanctioned in the manner Justin elaborated upon in the article.
If I follow the logic of some of the arguments presented in a few of the comments, super heavy-weight powerlifters are not athletes because they are fat. There are plenty of fat athletes who are good at what they do and plenty of thinner athletes who are also good at their craft. Being well-rounded in terms of cardiovascular and/or strength fitness isn’t a requirement to be an athlete though it is desirable.
So I ask you, is Benedikt Magnusson not an athlete?
We don’t have to question whether Bennie is an athlete or not, because he competes in sanctioned events so he is an athlete by proxy. If we wanted to argue whether he was athletic, that would be an open debate.
–Justin
Yukon, you’ve summarized my thoughts exactly.
Brents anger stems from the fact that he was always picked last for sports like baseball while he was growing up.
YELLOW CARD, offender: rpbrown
participant refuses to conduct himself in a manner becoming of a reasonable person and is attempting to provoke others by trolling
further infractions will result in a red card and ejection from the thread
RED CARD, offender: Dustin C
participant plays baseball and is apparently a raving fucking lunatic
sir, i’m going to have to ask you to remove yourself from the thread
Jesus titty fucking christ…
–Justin
In high school I used to play FPS games with a mouse sensitivity that required over 125″ to turn 360 degrees and had a giant mousepad and well tracking mouse to make that possible. At the time I thought it was a sport because I was competing in some sanctioned competitions and if I played for more than 2-3 hours without rest my arm got tired and hurt.
“Sport of Fitness”
Greg Glassman
brent kim: trolling is not a sport … yet.
Antigen brings up a pretty solid point, StarCraft Brood War, a computer game that was released in fucking 1998 and has now been overshadowed by its sequel StarCraft II, is more of a sport than baseball
i’m fucking done here
IMHO, Tetris is a sport, and I am its king.
this thread is now going places
Dota
Dota, hon, and LoL are the fucking worst games ever created
spam spells, run away to recharge mana, repeat 50x times per game
real fucking lame
but its still a pretty sick techno song wang chung
Baseball is a sport, its just a sport with tons of sitting, tons of standing around, tons of ball scratching and the like. Lots of seed chewing in the dugout, with your best buds.
Real men play lacrosse.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYQUsp-jxDQ#t=1m25s
Basshunter needs to squat more
Haha, he’s on a paddle boat later in the vid.
–Justin
Let me clarifty what I was talking about with regard to runners. I’m not talking about the people who actually RUN the race and try to beat other people in the race, and even if they know they can’t beat the fastest people, they try not to come in last and try to do a little better than before. I was on my high school track team and can testify that actual competitive running is indeed a sport and the training is brutal. However, there is a hefty segment of the population who enter these races and walk most of the way and then act like they should get a fucking medal for crossing the finish line, even though they don’t bother to look at the clock when they cross the line and then twitter about it for the next three weeks. If you don’t look at the time it took you to run the distance you’re removing the only metric used for determing performance, and therefore it’s no longer a sport. I’m telling you I see these thigns go by all the time and like half of the people fall into this category.
In the example olympic lifter, he may know he has no shot of winning (like I know I have no shot of winning powerlifting) but at least he tries to do better than before and tries to lift as much as he can. These “runners” I’m talking about don’t care what time they get, they just want to be able to tell their buddies that they “completed their 19th 10k” and post pictures of them holding their water bottle and designer cupcake they ate afterwards on facebook.
TL; DR
Baseball is still gay.
At least we got to the heart of the matter. You just don’t like baseball, which is fine.
Why is geared powerlifting not a sport?
@Maslow
I don’t know any runners who pay for a race and then don’t look at the clock or try and improve over time. And I know lots of runners. Also, completing a marathon, even if you “walk most of it” requires training and funneling that training toward a specific competition.
Question: A random crossfit workout isn’t a sport, but is the crossfit games competition a sport?
Yosh, I am convinced you aren’t this dense unless your mustache is trolling. I painstakingly pointed out in the post why CF competition wasn’t a sport, but strongman was.
–Justin
Geared powerlifting is a sport, but it is a silly one. There are so many different federations and gear restrictions it makes it near impossible to compare any “records.”
If a new squat world record is broken every time a new type of multi-ply suit comes out, something is definitely wrong.
That said, in geared powerlifting there are still rules (sanctioned competition) and they definitely exhibit physicality. If people want to compete geared, more power to them. However, I think it is absurd and the reason it’s “not a sport” as per Mr. Thug’s definition.
I’ll go further than this:
Sport – events where it is you against the clock, pounds, etc, with set rules of course. So Track and field, weightlifting, powerlifting – all sports. The fastest, strongest, farthest throwing on that day will win.
Anything with set rules that is determined by a score following those rules – a game. Football, Basketball, Baseball – all games.
Things that are determined by a objective score of judges – a competition. This includes gymnastics, ice skating, competitive cheerleading.
Got these definitions from one of my professors in college (kinisiology minor). So as much as we love football, its a game, not a sport.
Those definitions are terrible, and so is pretty much everything about Kinesiology. I know because I had to sit through the same lectures and have the degree.
–Justin
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Personally, I think that there is a distinction between ‘competition’ and ‘sports’, but that distinction doesn’t lessen the value of the endeavor.
‘Sport’ to me implies that you have a direct effect on your opponent’s ability to achieve victory. Football, soccer, wrestling, baseball, basketball, volleyball, tennis, and many others exhibit these qualities. I can directly limit my opponent’s chance to attain victory by tackling them, placing the ball where they cannot, preventing them from getting the ball to where they want it to go, pinning my opponent, etc. Those fall under the categories of ‘sports’.
‘Competitions’ are athletic events where you have a set victory parameter, but your performance does not directly influence an opponent’s ability to perform. Yes, there might be the psychological influence of ‘I’m not going to let so-and-so beat me…’, but that isn’t direct. A marathon is a competition, but since I can’t tackle or trip someone, it isn’t a ‘sport’. In fact, a major difference between ‘sports’ and ‘competitions’ is that you can’t do a sport by yourself; but you could run a marathon or Oly lift by yourself and as long as there is acceptable proof (as in a governing body willing to accept your it) of your effort, you could set a record.
Before I get blasted too much for this, let me restate that I think that sports and competitions are both valuable, and that those who compete in either of these categories are athletes. I’m just debating the standards by which we make the distinction of what is a sport and what is not.
I can’t wait for dodgeball marathons though. Now that would be fun to watch, especially if spectators were allowed to try and hit the runners too :)
You seem to be making a definition to fit what you think are or aren’t sports. I think there is some merit to your idea of “having a direct impact on the opponent”, but that’s too vague. You can have a direct impact on someone in Oly lifting if you say, “I fucked your sister,” right as they are about to lift. Instead, you should fix the terminology to say a “physical direct impact”. But then, it still may not apply because baseball doesn’t have much physical contact and basketball isn’t supposed to (unless you’re boxing out, anything else is pretty much a foul).
–Justin
that bat fight shit is hilarious
I was cracking up pretty hard at my lunch break at that bat fight.
Agreed that it is much easier to compare raw lifters then geared lifters. And does it matter that there isn’t a world championship of raw lifting? There’s still a world record raw total right?
adamfromjapan – What happens when you get hit in dodgeball marathons? Ejection from the race? Run backwards for some time for every instance you get hit?
rpbrown – I’m not sure, hadn’t thought that far into it. I would think that getting hit with a ball after a long run would be pretty hard in and of itself. Hopefully you can trip up your opponent. Either that, or replace the dodgeballs with oil-filled balloons… a slip slide marathon as a result. You wouldn’t necessarily need to hit your opponent, just the general ground in front of them :)
Or a marathon where maces are allowed…
Regarding fat people, sport and athleticism.
http://www.rankopedia.com/CandidatePix/34905.gif
Matt Dunning.
A professional athlete, who has represented his country and in so doing has achieved a higher level of sporting achievement than anybody who has been talking guff about being fat not being athletic.
Also a fatass.
One of a number of props who are portly and have played international rugby for Australia in recent years. (I’m not sure why that is)
I don’t think anyone can make legit case that fat people aren’t athletes if they are, in fact, competing in a sport.
–Justin
@president kang, as much as I like to bait my friends who golf by saying, “Golf is a game, not a sport,” I am not sure the sport/game/competition thing is a good distinction.
I do highland games, which is arguably a sport under your definition, as it is a track and field event. But it is also an endeavor that has “set rules that is determined by a score following those rules,” so it is also a game. But several of the events (e.g., the caber toss) are also “determined by a objective score of judges,” which makes it a competition.
Plus it seems weird that it would be classed as a sport, yet be called a game in its very name.
I like Justin’s definition because it seems pretty clear unless someone has an axe to grind.
PS: My sport/game/competition is full of guys y’all would probably call “fatasses” who all throw a LOT farther than me. I’d say they are still athletes in a sport by any measure. For example, Gene Flynn, a former HG masters world champ, threw the 42-pound weight over a 19′ bar at the San Antonio highland games a few weeks ago (one handed, and from a stand, not spinning). He has a bit of a belly, and yet he’s one of the best athletes I’ve ever had the pleasure to watch throw.
I want to point out that if you don’t like the argument that I laid out, then you have to give a solid definition for changing the definition I provided. You also can’t tweak the definition to include or exclude activities you consider a sport or not.
Adamfromjapan is the only person to try and make an amendment to the definition, yet it isn’t quantified (yet) and he seems to be doing it in order to create a satisfying definition that is in line with what he considers sports instead of objectively creating a definition and separating them from there.