Newsflash: insulin is the most anabolic hormone in the body. Anabolism is the process where smaller units are made into molecules. For our purposes in training, it means growth and recovery. You can not — repeat, NOT — get optimally strong without it.
When food is eaten, particularly carbohydrates, insulin will release to induce the cellular uptake of substances, particularly glucose (sugar) and amino acids (various effects on metabolism, but most importantly are building blocks of protein). The domino effect of insulin being released induces an anabolic state that is necessary for recovery. During training, muscles are damaged. The stress/adaptation process will not only repair the muscles, but repair them so that they have a higher threshold. The higher threshold culminates in increased strength (when on a proper program). Anabolism is an environment that is necessary for recovery to occur; if the body is wasting away in catabolism (the opposite of anabolism), it can’t help build the structures back up for recovery.
Neglecting carbohydrates dampens the anabolic effect of insulin. Since insulin is such a significant contributor to building the body, its volitional neglect is a decision that says, “I would prefer not to get big and strong right now.” And that’s just fucking weird, folks.
Carbohydrates aren’t the necessity for strength and muscular growth; protein and fat play significant roles in recovery. The point is that you need all three. Neglecting carbs has been a savvy thing to do lately. It’s a result of the demonizing on insulin. Well, guess what? If you aren’t lifting hard — training to get stronger and bigger muscles with compound movements like the squat, bench, press, and deadlift — then insulin is less critical. If you are sedentary or primarily do conditioning workouts — a training emphasis that induces adaptations in the cardiovascular/respiratory systems — then insulin probably should be avoided since it isn’t required for an environment of growth. Let me be clear: training only to get conditioned, by definition, isn’t stressing the body to grow and get stronger. However, someone who wants to get strong (with or without conditioning) will not only benefit from a growth environment, but will need it if they are going to be efficient with their time. It’s the intelligent thing to do.
Both Alice Cooper and Insulin are not actually evil
I’m not suggesting you have giant carb meals to create an insulin response. People forget that exercise, particularly exercise that induces a state of growth (like lifting) will increase insulin sensitivity. Fish oil also increases insulin sensitivity, and most people that read this site are taking it. You won’t need crazy amounts of carbohydrates to induce a solid insulin response — unless you’re a Skinny-pain-in-the-ass-Guy. I do want to point out that “crazy amounts of carbs” is a relative thing since a lot of people are eating melons, berries, and pine tree bark as their daily carb source (it’s what Lucy ate, after all). Unless you’re a fat person — and you know if you’re fat or not — aim for a similar amount of carbs and protein. You should be eating significant protein compared to your sedentary friends (at least 1g of protein per pound of body weight, and guys need much more than that). Some research would indicate that it really doesn’t matter when you have that protein during the day, but you’ll feel better if eat it throughout the day. However many protein grams you’re eating, eat an equal amount of carbs. For the hard training lifter, that really won’t be a lot. But it is a fuck-ton more than what most of you are eating because you’ve been told carbs and insulin are evil like the Alice Cooper.
Of course you’ll be adding on plentiful amounts of fat along with that diet. Glenn Pendlay told our chat room last Tuesday that he considered fat (with plenty of cholesterol) to be more important than protein (his lifters are obviously getting significant protein — I’d assume well over 1g of protein per pound of body weight). It’s the Grandma Principle in action. The Grandma Principle states that you should eat meals that your grandma would have cooked; whole meals with legit foods like cooked dead animal, vegetables, and potatoes. For more on Granda, go HERE.
On a similar note, I Socratically asked Pendlay, “Do any of your lifters eat paleo?” I knew what the answer was, and he said something like, “Are you fucking serious?” to which I replied, “Fuck no, but that’s the point.” Nobody is going to get strong — and I mean fucking above average strong, not deadlifting 400 — by eating tree bark.
Insulin is the most anabolic hormone. By choosing not to utilize it throughout the day in at least two or three meals is a decision that says, “I don’t want to be as strong as I could be.” It’s analogous to wearing Vibram Fucking Five Fingers in the gym or choosing to squat with the bar on top of your head — it isn’t fucking optimal. And folks, people who make a blatant decision to not be strong give me the willies.
Glad you posted this. There is a profound confusion about insulin and how it pertains to *healthy* and athletic trainees.
Insulin is not bad. Insulin resistance is bad. Glycemic index is a red herring. It doesn’t matter (unless you have insulin resistance). I don’t think anyone knows for sure what causes insulin resistance, but the leading suspect is fructose. (Also maybe gluten – and maybe only in some people).
Root vegetables are the way to go here. Load it up with fat as well. Especially before and after workouts. That’s also consistent with an ancestral diet.
What role does milk play in this picture? If one were doing GOMAD, they’d be getting about 200 g of carbs from the milk alone. Do you think milk is a good source of carbs, especially if it represents our primary source, or should the focus be elsewhere?
The benefit of milk is the macro nutrient ratio. The P/C/F is around 8/12/8 (in grams). Not to mention it helps those anabolic hormones release.
–Justin
A couple questions, since this has actually been on my head lately…
a) What are your thoughts on higher carbs on workout days and higher fat on off days? Obviously, you need plenty of both (and plenty of protein, which I get ~1.5 g / lb BW daily), but I’ve been aiming for a higher percentage of carbs on workout days and a higher percentage of fats on off days lately…your thoughts on this?
b) I’m currently doing “Intermediate Fasting” (IF) because it works very well with my schedule
(you just pick a window of ~8 hours per day to eat). I have a very good appetite and eat lots of calorie-dense foods, so eating above maintenance isn’t really a problem for me. Is this a problem for growing bigger and stronger (seeing as you mentioned that getting protein throughout the day is better), or is this whole 8-hour-window concept fine, as long as I’m consistent with it? (I’ve also noticed at least a couple other posters on here mentioning that they eat IF-style as well).
a) I don’t like diets that change things on a daily basis. If I’m going off the theme of this post (insulin = anabolic), then by reducing carbs on an off day is going to be a less active day (regarding growth and recovery) when you need it most. Remember, you don’t get big and strong by training…you get big and strong when you recover from training.
b) I don’t see how intermittent fasting is going to be useful with optimal strength training. Going through a 16 hour period of not eating, and thus not in anabolism, or a hormonal state of growth, just doesn’t seem like it’d be useful. I don’t know much about how the hormones work regarding IF, but I can’t predict any utility. I’d also have to assume that you’re a smaller guy, cause bigger guys wouldn’t be able to get in the minimum amount of food in 8 hours.
–Justin
Important post, and very well written.
I just got my head pulled out of my ass a couple of weeks ago by Johnny Pain. So now I’m feasting on carbs until 4pm everyday. I’m starting to see a change in my body composition plus i have much more energy than I had before when I tried to avoid carbs throughout the day.
Boom.
–Justin
I did the no carbs thing for a little while (3-4 months) when I didn’t know any better. Despite getting plenty of calories, I lost strength while doing it. You just gotta be smart with your carbs, Ben Claridad had a post about steel-cut oats in the morning which read:
‘I don’t trust anyone who tells me not to eat oatmeal and neither should you. I’m not saying that I’m a nutrition expert. What I am saying is that strong, athletic people eat carbohydrates and if you want to be strong and athletic, you will too. Carbohydrate watching nonsense is for weight loss and weight maintenance, not for athletic performance…. I’m a big guy because I eat big on the regular. And I’ll be damn surprised if steel cut oats is going to be the thing that kills me.’
nice write-up Justin.
A side-note: Boooo to the new 70s Big store for not having their shit together on the throwback T-shirt design. I ordered it in Navy and Brown 2-3 weeks ago and just got an e-mail yesterday that the design is jacked up and they are going to cancel them from my order. I guess I’ll just be getting the original logo shirt for now, BOOOOO
I’ll be dealing with this tomorrow (Thursday). They took their time in notifying me.
–Justin
Protein spikes insulin even more than carbohydrates. By the way, I myself love me some carbohydrates.
Is it Gay of me that I immediately recognized the quote at the top of the eat like grandma fed you page and I loved it?
It’s completely possible to eat the necessary amount of paleo foods to stay 70s big. The Grandma Principle is essentially Paleo at its roots anyway. Eat Real Food…and avoid things that are gut irritating. It’s not complicated.
Also, considering that protein also causes an insulin response, I maintain that larg[er] levels of carbohydrates are generally unnecessary…unless you’re doing high intensity exercise that depletes glycogen stores.
Paleo is not enough for someone who is attempting to get or maintain a state of 70’s Big. That’d require a guy weighing at least 230 pounds, and he’s going to need to eat more than sweet potatoes to do that.
–Justin
Counter: http://www.details.com/style-advice/the-body/201103/carbs-caffeine-food-cocaine-addiction?currentPage=1
So linking an article that only applies to fat and sedentary people is a counter to my post on how insulin is important for people who train hard?
The answer is that it’s irrelevant.
–Justin
@Edward
thats a great article, but you have to realize the audience its being directed at: namely overweight desk jockeys who probably don’t do much weight training.
Also, if you’re eating good stuff for breakfast like eggs and bacon, then its not going to hurt to add a bagel, biscuit, etc to that as well. Grabbing only a banana or muffin for breakfast is the fail here.
@renee,
I agree with you, however for some/most its somewhat difficult to eat enough paleo stuff to make up your required calories.
also, milk.
also, how can you exclude cheese? that alone should prove that CF’rs/Paleo are evil assholes.
Good post on food today! I have always thought that success on the (Insert whatever noun here) Diet was never based on the system, but the fact that people pay more attention to what they put in their bodies when they are on Zone/Palleo/Atkins….whatever.
Anyway, here’s a quote from the 70s Big Diet plan:
“…have at least one dining experience every couple of weeks that resembles an epic struggle worthy of telling over beers…”.
Last night I had such a struggle. It was my first experience with Brazilian BBQ – basically, waiters come around with giant sticks of meat – and shave it right on to your plate. And they dont stop until you tell them to! After an hour, I felt like I was eating just to prove a point. It had 70s Big written ALL OVER IT! If you have never done so, try a Brazilain BBQ! There were at least 5 different types of meat wrapped in bacon, too.
Also, I hit new PRs on the LP:
280# x 5 x 3 on the squat
145# x 5 x 3 on the press
Will have “man strength” soon!
I eat waffles for breakfast and I am a real cool guy who doesn’t afraid of anything.
Carbs are definitely included in my “eat everything in sight” policy.
Being catabolic isn’t a sport.
@smithb9,
That statement is one of my biggest pet peeves ever. John Welbourn, who weighs 300lbs and eats something crazy like 6000Cal or so for maintenance, is capable of eating that with just Paleo foods.
Fat is more calorically dense/gram than carbohydrates are. The only leg that statement has to stand on is that fat and protein is very satiating, so it’s hard to get hungry enough to keep eating with just those two macros. The counter to that is to shovel down the root veggies, the sweet potatoes (or *gasp* white potatoes).
In respect to the main post, though…calories required for strength training =/= calories required for mass gain, so the high[er] carb recommendation doesn’t necessarily apply
John Welbourn probably also has someone who makes his meals for him too.
Haha, he grilled the steaks when I ate with him. He’s a grown-ass man who takes care of himself.
–Justin
Awesome post. I love me some carbs and I do notice major athletic gains upon eating a lot of good pasta and bread, let alone the whole foods.
Justin- speaking of insulin spikes, what do you think about IGF-1…it’s legal, sold in vitamin stores, used by professional athletes, and is the main ingredient in a lot of male sex rejuvination drugs.
IGFs are present in the body, but I don’t know anything about the supplementation thereof.
–Justin
great post, it angers me that people have become so stupid that they can’t figure out that eating normal meals would be effective! the most obvious way to see if someone doesn’t really know anything about nutrition is when they are only capable of stubbornly advocating one specific diet for everyone no matter what there goals, rage over.
I only deadlift 425: shit.
Well written Justin. I’d also add that if people are still sensitive to eating carbs, consuming them after your workout is likely the best time, no?
Yes, postworkout is a critical time to eat.
–Justin
Exercise isn’t just insulin-sensitizing. It actually causes your cells to uptake and process nutrients directly, instead of through the insulin mediated chain. Diabetics don’t have to take as much artificial insulin when they exercise. And it lowers the insulin response in insulin-resistant people because of this- you don’t have a high buildup of blood glucose if the cells are already uptaking it.
Your body can and does make energy from both protein and fat, but that also requires more energy to do so than making it from carbs. The return isn’t as high for the investment. That’s a good thing if you’re trying to lose weight, but its not a good thing if you’re trying to get big and strong.
This is one of those topics that is really interesting to me, because there hasn’t been a lot of good research on the subject.
Training aside, there is no dietary requirement for carbohydrates, because in an absence of carbs, your body turns to gluconeogenesis to create glucose out of non-carbs.
As far as I know, there hasn’t been any decent research (or at all) of heavy weight training on a no-carb diet.
@stonerider – what about the “anabolic diet” ?
What always makes me chuckle about the Paleo crowd is how proud they are about the fact the a slice of pizza or a sandwich is somehow able to put them out of action. By keeping this sort of stuff in my diet I am in fact training my bowels to deal with the unknown and unknowable.
Justin failed to mention a core benefit of carbohydrate consumption: It gives you better pumps. After I started eating sweet potatos every day it was impossible to not notice the difference in any set longer than 5.
@Evan Professional Athletes if they’re benefiting from it are using Injectable IGF-1. The over the counter products made from “Deer Antler Velvet” contain micro doses of igf and do nothing.
And if we’re really supposed to reach 1g/lb of carbohydrate or god forbid 2g/lb for the proteinavores out there I’ll never make it paleo, that would be 9 large sweet potatos a day.
Which come to think of it would taste really really good…
+1
–Justin
As many of you probably have experienced yourselves. I was “So Crossfit” for a few years starting in 2007. I was shredding gnarly WODs with my shirt off and busting out 50+ kipping pull-ups in a row. I was also eating Paleo and I weighed 185#. My deadlift maxed out around 430#, squat was about 315# and bench was sniffing 225#.
Realizing I needed to get strong for the first time in my life, I added dairy, grains and more meat to my diet. 7 months later I am 225#, my deadlift is around 560#, squat around 430# and bench around 330#. I went to watch friends compete in a Crossfit Comp last weekend and realized that I would have won the first event (deadlift, winner hit 505#) and done well in the following two due to my increased strength and maintaining conditioning, without even training Crossfit.
I forgot to mention that I stopped doing the WODs and got on some real strength and conditioning programs
@smithb9
i’m not familiar with the “anabolic diet”, but after briefly googling it, it looks like it is a carb-cycle program
as far as i’ve come to understand, it takes roughly 6 weeks of little-to-no carbs for your body to completely shift gears and become efficient, and i feel like heavily re-introducing them every weekend would prevent that
I don’t like diets that alter things daily or do this kind of thing. Nobody is going to do this long term.
–Justin
I DRIVE A MINIVAN, I FUCKING LOVE KIPPING PULLUPS, AND I HATE CARBS! ARGH! DON’T TELL ME WHAT TO DO!
Hey now, be nice.
–Justin
@smithb9, I agree that carbs (specifically refined, grain-based carbs) are negatively affecting “overweight desk jockeys who probably don’t do much weight training” to a greater effect than those who eat that way AND bust their butt in the gym.
However, just because a population of people workouts, even lifting heavy weights, that does not make them adverse to the effects of carbs. You said,”if you’re eating good stuff for breakfast like eggs and bacon, then its not going to hurt to add a bagel, biscuit, etc to that as well.” That’s just not true. It has an effect on you regardless.
I’m friends with people who claim to have tried a Paleo-type diet, and say they didn’t notice any benefits to being on it. However, for myself and my wife, when we dropped out the carbs (again, primarily grain-based, refined carbs) we both felt a great deal better. I do eat fruits and all veggies, including all varieties of potatoes.
Edward, I remember meeting you. How much lean body mass would you say you have? It’s not a crack if it’s low, it’s just that metabolism is different when you have higher LBM and train hard.
Everyone likes to point out the outliers to prove their point. Dr. Kilgore, for one, has trained since he was 11 and has good lipid profiles and no adverse health effects despite a questionable diet.
–Justin
Will complex and simple carbs have different effects on insulin levels?
Yes, but in different ways than the glycemic index. I’m not an expert, so you’ll have to do your research. I have read that milk has a large effect on insulin (which would support the utility of drinking milk for skinny guys).
–Justin
There are several people who are talking about when they decided to get strong they started eating everything in sight and that made their lifts and weight go up. That’s great.
Out of curiosity, has anyone kept regular comprehensive blood panels on themselves to see how “healthy” they are after they go from Paleo to eating everything in site, or vise-versa?
I love strength. And I like the weight I’ve put on from strength training. I’m glad I found 70’s Big. But I also want to be healthy, as well as strong, especially as I age. I’ll accept not being the strongest guy in gym if it means I have likelihood of dying 20 years too soon.
Where on this site have you seen me recommend that people eat like crazy for the rest of their lives? Instead, go count the number of times that I’ve pointed out how once an adequate body weight is gained after a bulking period, the trainee should clean their diet up. Report back with your findings.
–Justin
Renee,
Yes Welbourn loves to be paleo, but he also recommends people drink milk. Unless he has just recently changed his view on this matter, the has mentioned for people to eat paleo plus GOMAD. He didn’t get to where he is now by eating paleo.
Why are you cf’ers so fucking paleo nuts? I don’t hate paleo, I think it is great for SOME people. Not the little guy trying to get 70’s Big though.
I’ll also point out that it’s pretty clear Welbourn didn’t get to 300 pounds by eating paleo.
–Justin
After breaking my DL 5rm last night, I had 2 3x3s at In-n-Out with fries and shake.
“Paleo” is not the problem. You can adapt a diet using paleo foods to just about any situation. All you are really talking about is removing grains and sugar. Anyone who says you NEED grains to get big and strong is full of shiznit. Why not get your carbs from nutrient dense sources like sweet potatoes and veggies? If you REALLY need to up your carbs that much throw in some squashes and fruit.
We all need things to hate but paleo is not one of them. You can form paleo foods into any type of macronutrient ratio you need for the diet you pick.
Paleo is not Atkins. Just eat real damn food and not processed crap. You will be better off for it.
@Edward
I don’t think people here are talking about eating apple turnovers, donuts, and mac and cheese for the ‘anything in sight’ rule.
Whole grains, good carbs, minimally processed foods, milk, etc. Nothing wrong with a hamburger and a big ole bun to compliment it ;)
@StillGrowing, I’m not certain, but I believe that when exposed to Xg of simple carbs vs Xg of complex carbs, the amt of insulin excreted is the same, but the time elapsed is longer with complex carbs.
@kittenSmash,
a) I’m not a cfer.
b) He doesn’t recommend that _people_ drink milk. He recommends that _little guys_ drink milk if they need to…and i believe he highly encourages raw milk.
c) it’s not a list without 3 options and people love lists
Seriously though, while both one’s necessary macro-ratios and food quality are questions of goals and priorities, my point is that it is NOT mutually exclusive for somebody to be a successfully strong lifter AND eat paleo. That’s all I’m saying.
er…secreted, not excreted
I enjoyed the article, if anyone has been over to the strength villain forums, JP has a pretty good grasp on optimal nutrition for getting stronger, and it TOO includes eating carbs! WOW go figure! Getting carbs doesn’t have to mean shoveling pizza crust or eating a bunch of processed sugary shit, you can get some really good cards out of raw oats, sweet potatoes, brown rice etc… I think the whole PALEO thing has been blown out of proportion. People make the argument that our Paleolithic ancestors didn’t eat bread and “shit”, but I’m willing to be that if bread and “shit” very available to them, they WOULD have devoured it.
Also, how long has Welbourn been doing paleo stuff? I can’t imagine he made it to the NFL without eating any burgers or burritos… just not happenning ;)
I’m curious to see what age the paleo people will die at. I’m not saying they’ll die early, but unless they are all living to be 95+, I’m not really impressed. I maintain that physical activity is the largest contributing factor to health.
–Justin
justin, darling! thank you for this post!
1) Keeping regular comprehensive blood panels on yourself is not a sport.
2) Mac and Cheese is definitely included in MY “eat everything in sight” rule, homemade of course.
3) If Groc knew how to make skillet cornbread, you can bet your ass he’d have been eating it
4) It’s not mutually exclusive for someone to be a strong lifter while eating paleo, but it is the exception, not the rule. Otherwise, wouldn’t every strength athlete the world over be doing it?
Carbs are nice and all, but Alice Cooper is AWESOME!!!
Lifting to his ‘Killer’ album is very anabolic.
Phil, I listened to Alice Cooper all morning. Solid.
–Justin
Hey Justin,
How about a post on killer lifting tunes. That should stimulate some fun comments.
MAJOR PR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i can’t wait until friday for this one.
I OUT LIFTED A BOY IN AN UPPER BODY LIFT THIS WEEK!
so i tried DB rows for the first time yesterday, did 50 for 12, 10, 10 on each arm
today at the gym i saw a deceptively manly looking boy using a 30 lb for his rows.
baaaahaha
Thunder,
I bet that boy has an “innie” now. Very emasculating. Nice work.
Justin, thanks for the response to my questions, sorry for taking a while to re-respond. On IF, I’m eating in the low-mid 3000 range for calories daily in the 8 hour period (I sometimes expand it to 9-10 hours–the main thing is I just don’t start eating until after school). I’ll aim similar macros daily, after considering what you said about the importance of carbs on off days (never really thought about this).
I’m running Madcow’s / Bill Starr’s 5 x 5 right now, and do some conditioning 2-3 days per week (on off days). BW is in the low-mid 180’s after running a 15 lb cut (probably wasn’t smart, considering I’m about 6’1″ and 17 years old, but I wanted to trim off some extra BF).
So, basically, are you saying to stop IF-ing if I want to grow? I just enjoy it so much because it works so well with my schedule, and if I were to eat at school, it’s generally just crap anyways (or, at best, a giant deli sandwich and some sides with milk).
I really appreciate your advice.
This is why I ask, Domjo, because you’re 180 pounds. I outweigh you by at least 20 pounds and probably have comparable or better body comp then you. In order to recover, an 8 hour window won’t be enough time to get the desired amount of food in, especially since the calories are more on the quality side compared to when I was gaining.
It’s not a crack at you, but for someone with a lot more lean body mass, they can’t function with only eating 8 hours a day, hence my disdain for IF. Not to mention you’re 17. You can experience phenomenal increases in growth and strength in the next few years — mostly LBM since you say you have low BF right now — if you don’t hold yourself back. The fact that you’re catabolic for 16 hours of your day just makes things more limited.
–Justin
@domjo54
I often sleep 10-12 hours a day and don’t eat my first meal until 1-2 hours after waking up and I still get stronger and grow (slowly).
re if the food at school is low protein overpriced crap, (ie that giant deli sandwich only having 12oz of meat or something) I wouldn’t buy it.
I’d make enough food at night so you have leftovers for breakfast and lunch each day. But something doesn’t sit right with me if your goal is weight gain to not eat whenever you are hungry. And you definitely need to gain, lots, soon, not “trim some bf” if you want progress in your lifts. I’m 5’7″, need to gain weight and still outweigh you.
justin, thanks for the article. I was wondering is there a good book you’d recommend to be a primer on nutrition, just as like ss is a primer for strength training?
There isn’t one that will help from a general perspective because they all have a specialization and won’t have anything to do with real training. People who train hard or coach such trainees don’t care about having to prove methods to the “research crowd” because they are busy making people better or healthier.
I would recommend reading various nutrition books, like “Good Calories, Bad Calories”, “The Great Cholesterol Con”, and even one of the paleo books. Anything that has an element of zealotry in it, take with a grain of salt and apply the principles to your given situation. It’s the same with programming — different programming methods may not be what I believe in, but I pull concepts and principles from them and apply it in how I would program.
Did that help?
–Justin