Novice Squatting Frequency, PR Friday

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From yesterday’s comments:

Justin, do you have any leanings one way or another in squatting two times a week vs. three times a week on a novice program?

–RD

With most of my answers: it depends. The trainee’s goals should be assessed first. If they only care about strength — and don’t have a tangent athletic goal like football, highland games, etc. — then three days a week will allow them to progress faster. A novice just starting out will benefit from three squatting days to A) establish the motor pattern and B) have another local and systemic stress that will C) increase strength and D) increase muscle. However, that same novice may progress to a point where three days of squatting nears the limit of what they can handle in week’s worth of time. When I was squatting above 450 for three sets of five in three workouts a week during my linear progression, I was miserable. Toeing the line of what is possible isn’t optimal in this case, and squatting two times a week will continue that progression, albeit slightly slower. I’d recommend it for someone in the later stages of their progression.

As for the trainee that has ulterior motives for competition; I may have this trainee squat twice a week and deadlift once so that they retain some recovery capabilities for the practice of their sport. However, this would depend on what phase of training we were in with respect to the competition date or season. Strength gaining would have more of an emphasis the farther away from competition while strength maintenance may be important leading into competition. It would still be dependent on the training advancement of the person; if they were a rank novice (i.e. just starting), they could improve their strength while in the competitive phase. If they are farther along in the progression, maintaining their gains will be the minimum goal.

Answers regarding programming are neither simple nor straightforward. It will always depends on things like goals, current state of adaptation, and recent training history.

_________
PR Friday
Post your personal records, training updates, thoughts, and musings to the comments. F you Pittsburgh Steelers.

Remember: don't step over the line.


57 thoughts on “Novice Squatting Frequency, PR Friday”

  1. I think I need to post some videos of me squatting and deadlifting, because they are just creeping forward at this point, and my legs are always sore and worn out. My weight is increasing steadily, still, and my bench and press are increasing fine. I’m hoping there’s a form problem and not that I’m petering out at such low weights (in my mind) in my LP.

    Anyway, PRs:

    Squat: 310 x 5 x 3
    Bench: 255 x 5 x 3
    Press: 147.5 x 5 x 3

    Weight PR: 188.8 lbs

  3. Press: 145 x 7 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AolCsb56j58)

    The angle makes the lean-back look worse than it really is–though it definitely was there. The problem was that my belt (which is a lever) was too loose, so I couldn’t really apply the Valsalva properly, and I wound up leaning back to compensate. I also need to use my hips more (or at all, in this case), and to shrug the weight more at lockout.

  5. Technique PR: began learning the glide for my open stone put. Right now it is only adding a couple of feet over my power position standing throw, but I can feel the power there, if I can only hit the groove.

  7. PRs:
    Squat: 225 x 20
    Deadlift 385 x 3.

    That 20-repper was brutal! Like every other time I’ve tried a 20-repper around rep 11 I thought there was no way I’d make it, around 15 I wanted to quit, but by 17 Carl Sagan spoke to me and I saw the light and made it happen. I took a week off of benching to give trap injury some time to heal up and got a sports massage (Groupon FTW). I’ll try benching tomorrow and see what happens. I bought two pork shoulders from Costco the other day (only $20 for the pair!). I’ll put one of them in the crock pot and try out that pulled pork recipe tomorrow.

  8. “post-football” career PR…

    I weighed 201.5 lbs this morning. First time weighing over 200 lbs in two years. After my senior year, I went kamikaze with crossfit, and went from 220 to 185 in about 4 months.

    feels good, man.

  11. @Justin, I went to 24HR fitness the other day and saw a guy that kept loaded the leg press machine with 45lbs plate. He was walking all over the gym taking the plates from everyone. He finally put 10, 45lbs plates on each side. So, I watched in horror as the guy was only going down a quarter of the way while wearing running shoes! That made my day, and reminded me off all the great posts you do of the 165lb ripped gym guy. Then I proceeded to do my 12 reps at 360lbs on squats, full depth of course.

  12. One PR this week:

    1RM Front Squat @ 335#.

    Tried 355# because the previous lift went up relatively easily, but slid forward on my toes and dumped it. I don’t think I was totally committed and I definitely wasn’t focused enough. I’ll get it next time.

  13. Wait a second, El Diablo, are you Sean?

    Anyway, I’ll post PRs later. Intending to squat 405×3, bench 245×3 (paused, never tried it before) and deadlift 455ish for 3.

  14. I pressed my bodyweight for a double, a boyish 190. Also did Weighted dips with 135 for 4. Neither are very impressive but they’re two accomplishments that have eluded me for a while.

    Last week I went down in weight to do some reps with 205 on jerks. On the second rep I jacked myself hard in the jaw and chipped my left lower canine – dentist says I might have to get a root canal. So this might be a PR for feeling like a dumb-ass while in a gym.

  16. I’ve recently switched to just squating twice a week, mostly due to lack of recovery for three days a week. Having a newborn limits the sleeping some! It could just be my body has adapted since I last lifted this heavy but I have significantly less aches and pains then when I was at the same point weight-wise with my LP before my layoff for injury and child birth.

    Next workout I’ll be hitting my previous LP PR on the squat. I have a feeling my LP will end in the coming 2-3 weeks and I plan on getting back to 3 days a week with Texas Method, hoping that lighter day will help recovery.

    I’m not planning a full on Texas Method until after I compete in March though, I’ll be modifying it to suit my needs and helping me figure out what I’m capable of going into the meet.

    It’s definetly a case to case basis, do what works.

    @stonerider – I’m at about the same point with the same numbers as you @200lbs BW. I’m chalking it up to petering out on my LP, time to switch things up some. Not everyone gets to a 450 lb squat on LP.

    @Maslow – Much respect for the 20-repper. I don’t know if I could get there yet, nice job

  17. I’ll work up to a max in the C&J and Snatch tomorrow, but I need to bring this to your attention.

    That is all.

    I didn’t watch all of it, but was laughing. Three minutes of Ric Flair wrote the book on how to be a heel.

    –Justin

  18. Justin, what do you think about squatting very frequently and tailoring daily volume and intensity accordingly? (i.e., keeping both low enough that one can continue to squat almost every day without injury or something)

    In one youtube interview, John Broz said something to the effect of “if an old man does two sets of ten with the bar in the morning, and again in the evening, does that mean he’s over-training because he trained twice that day?”.

    I can imagine that one argument against this would be that if one trained so frequently, s/he would not be able to implement high enough volume/intensity on a workout-to-workout basis to make progress. However, can a person’s work capacity not increase enough over time that this may be overcome?

    If you choose to reply, I thank you for your thoughts on this.

    Recent PR:
    BS 150kg x 5 x 3
    high bar, atg, no belt (I’m sorry… it’s just my preference!)

    PS: I have been squatting and C&Jing almost every day since Sept. as per the Broz ideology (max singles followed by 2’s and 3’s), and have progressed greatly.
    Mind you, I haven’t been DLing, benching, or any other power lifts, either.
    Anyway, just saying that it’s not so bad, and I haven’t gotten injured or anything.

    When did you do the 150kgx5x3 if you’ve been squatting regularly per Broz’s programming?

    There is no way for me to know if you could have less or more progress doing it another way. I’d still want someone to have a base of strength before doing what you’re doing. In any case, Olympic weightlifting training is very different than general strength training, muscle building, or powerlifting. That’s why it’s fun.

    As for Broz’s comment, it’s irrelevant because it’s kinda vague. I’ll also point out that I like Broz, like how he coaches, and have sorta e-mailed with him a couple times, so it’s not like I’m putting him down. I’m just saying the quote you used doesn’t provide enough evidence to prove the point.

    –Justin

  21. I think there should be a discussion on “what brands of dress pants fit men who squat.”

    I don’t think my quads are that big, but I have trouble these days finding any pants that fit (including jeans). I bought 3 different brands of pants last week, and all ended up fitting like skinny hipster pants. Do I have to go to pleated pants? (I hate pleated pants).

    We’ve talked about it. Levi’s 569s will fit anyone (they fit Chris and I, and my thighs are larger than guys who weigh much more than me). In high school I didn’t know about the 569s and used Lee Dungarees, but they don’t really fit anymore. AC said Carharts fit him. As for dress clothes, I haven’t really found any that fit (they all get stuck a little above the knee when I try to put them on).

    –Justin

  22. @ smithb9

    I got some Nordstrom Chinos that fit me back when I was 215. They’re cut to look alright too. I also just got some gabardine Brooks Brothers slacks that fit just fine. I think it ultimately comes down to the fact that you can’t shop in stores anymore for pants. If you shop online you can get a wide range of measurements but if you shop in stores you often can’t find anything larger than a 34 waist for a 30′ inseam and if you want a 36 waist or larger you are forced to buy a longer inseam.

    Pleated pants are for thin people. You don’t want pleated.

  26. Justin,

    Have you not seen the Swole Partol videos (via Elite FTS)?

    Some are excessively silly, but most are absolutely hilarious (not to mention the glorious dancing).

    I’ve seen one before and we talked about it in the comments. I don’t really look at a whole lot of stuff on the internet regarding lifting since I have to keep up with my own site.

    –Justin

  27. @smithb9
    !NEWS FLASH!: Costco right now (at least the DC area Costcos) have Levis 569s for $22! I got a pair and I can fit my legs in them. I can’t express in words how good it feels to wear pants that fit for the first time in a year. My legs ripped through my other Levis (I forgot what number, something smaller). My waist still can wear a 32 inch waist measurement, but I had to get the 34 inch measurement and just wear a belt with it so that the legs and ass area are a little bigger.

    Also a while back when we talked about this we were also talking about dress shirts. I now proudly own six Brooks Brothers slim fit 17″ neck all cotton non-iron shirts. I can wear a tie without being strangled and the shirt doesn’t get all puffy at the bottom. If you wait around long enough you can probably get the same deal I got –3 shirts for $150 when you order online.

  31. Front squats
    107.5kg/236.5lb: 10×3
    Took me 12minutes, 46 seconds.

    Deficit Deadlifts (first DL workout I’ve completed since about September)
    100kg/220lb: 10×3
    off of 15kg plates

  32. Bench: 3 x 5 x 117.5 lbs

    I switched to 2.5 lb jumps this week. I now see why making progress on bench fucking sucks.

    HBBS: 5 x 175 lbs

    I really want to stop claiming any HBBS PRs until that shit is over 5 x 200 lbs. Fuck high bar.

    Front squat: 5 x 150 lbs

    This was actually the last 5 reps of a 27 rep front squat ladder. So, I hit 22 reps total and then my final set was for 5. My last 5RM was 145 lbs a while back, so this was technically a PR. Kind of cool that it was after 22 reps. At least I thought it was cool.

    Training total PR of 108 kg. Snatch of 47 kg and C&J of 61 kg. Neither of those are PRs on their own, but I’ve never hit that total in training, mainly because I have been doing my fucking remedial jerks off the rack for so long. It still blows, but it is well over the total I need to qualify for Masters Worlds, so suck it, bitches.

    I think I also hit a PR on time spent being lectured by my coach, where he actually drew this diagram showing how the shortest distance between Point A (my current lifts) and Point B (World Champion lifts) is a straight line. And, how I insist on continually trying to fuck up that straight line by doing things that are not in my program (like LBBS). http://i.imgur.com/yD1o8.jpg

  34. 3×5 squat @ 205#

    39kg snatch- PR for me because I never squat.. Power anything is easier for me due to extreme lack in flexibility but I’m working on it

    ~Amanda

  37. rack pull: 410 1×5
    Squat: 320 3×3
    Press: 140 3×3 (6’4″ wing span blows!)
    All I can fit in now is two squat days as well. I’ve been prone to get greedy on jumps from day to day, so I’ve only been going up 2.5 per workout so 5 a week and it seems to have served me well so far.

  38. @Justin

    From Conditioning post (07/01/11)
    “How often are you deadlifting? You may benefit from doing a more standard LP with some added conditioning in (since you’ve been lazy). Your squat numbers indicate that you just aren’t getting time under the bar (twice a week squatting is okay…). Perhaps the Greyskull LP would be interesting to you — you would have three training days but two squat days. Might be more motivating for you. Let me know.

    And fucking go to bed earlier. Increase your protein by at least 50 grams.

    “What’s the Aussie fitness test consist of? You should be able to just do 400m intervals (look up higher in the comments to see some guys that are using them). Tabata sprints will work well in conjunction.”

    Apologies for not replying sooner – i really appreciate you taking the time to give some feedback.

    So, I took a look at the Greyskull LP and liked the sound of it, so started that this week – with the exception of the neck harness work, as i don’t yet have one. I’ve also been doing the freq method BW chins to help them along.

    Previously, i was doing my best to follow your S&C program as outlined, so I was only DLing once a week. Before this Wed i don’t think i’d DL’d in nearly a month though. I liked JPs idea of using the PCs as a warm up and got up to 1x65kg, then managed 11x115kg – 5×115 was my last DL workout and also a PR.

    Bench and press went about as expected – need to get some 1/2kg plates for the 2.5lb jumps, though.

    Squat still kicking my arse. My PR on Jan 10 was a pretty shaky 1x5x105kg, then 2x3x105. Decided to drop back to 90 when i started GSLP this week but even doing that i wouldnt have called it easy. Monday i managed 2x5x90, 1x8x90. Yesterday was 2x5x92.5, 1x2x92.5 (bullshit!) Very disheartening!

    I’ve been trying to eat more and have been taking in some more milk – have had a couple of late nights, though :( As for conditioning, i’ve done: 4×350-400m intervals, 2:1 rest:work; 10x100m sprints up a slight hill – walk back, repeat; and a couple of barbell complexes. All on separate days, obviously…

    I feel like there must be some kind of form fault cock-blocking my squat. I don’t know that my diet and sleep are that messed up for me to be stalling so early. Here is a video i took a little over a month ago squatting 3x5x95kg:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXyLhvFFIZ4

    Sorry about the length, but any advice would be great – cheers.

  39. ^Oh, almost forgot. Our fitness test is comprised of max pushups in 2min, situps to a cadence (feet anchored, slide hands up legs till wrists meet knees), and 2.4km (1.5mi)run – in that order. For my age group, i require 40 pushups, 70 situps and <11:18 on the run.

  40. HBBS – 282lbs 5-5-5. I found some 1lb collars. I’m hoping to get to 300 soon. Definitely will hit 290.

    Weighted Dips – 52.5lbs 8-7-6, Doing 5-5-5, but if it feels easy I go until failure. I think this has been the key to pushing through on my bench.

    DL – 330lb 5. Was constantly having fatigue issues with lower back. Scaled back from 5-5-5 reps and feel much better. Very little fatigue now.

  41. Justin, thanks for replying.

    I actually wasn’t trying to make a strong statement of any kind in opposition to some other general strength training ideology. I just wanted you to weigh in on the idea of high frequency weight training with appropriately tailored volume and intensity, along with intelligent long-term progression of those variables while maintaining high frequency.
    I was hoping you could tell me what kind of training you think it might apply best to (i.e. OL or something), and what it might not work so well for, and why.

    I suppose I could have worded it that way to begin with.

    I too have no idea if I would have progressed better doing something else. But this seems to be working, and I enjoy training frequently.
    Mind you, I did start off on SS when I first started lifting 8 months and 35 lbs. ago, and I was really happy with the progress I got from that. It definitely gave me a base of strength, or at least one that was proportional to the commitment that I gave that particular program. I think I could have used my first few months more wisely, but do 95% of lifters out there, I’ll bet.

    And about the 150 x 3 x 5: that was on Wed. I’ve been messing around with some higher reps for volume squats (well, more than 2’s and 3’s) for the last couple months. Every 3rd workout or so. Feels good. Heck, I even did a few sets of 20 over the last few weeks. Brutal.
    Anyway, I haven’t been doing 2’s and 3’s exclusively. My training might be better described as “Broz-inspired”, in that case.

    Yeah, I’ve exchanged a message or two with him as well. Really nice, helpful guy. I’ve got tons of respect for him and his lifters.

  42. Originally 150kg was a PR for just one set of five, but the other day I felt good enough to do two additional sets.

    But it’s not like I go around trying to smash my 5-rep PR every other day, however.

  44. Hit a new deadlift 5 rep max tonight: 420 x 5.
    Also witnessed the gym manager engaged in a new level of asshattery, yelling at a guy for deadlifting in socks.
    manager: YOU HAVE TO PUT SHOES ON
    lifter: Sir, I can’t deadlift in tennis shoes. It doesn’t make sense.
    manager: YOU GOTTA WEAR SHOES
    lifter: *points at guy wearing Vibram glove-shoes, stretching by the Smith machine* – So those are shoes? [I start laughing; manager pretends not to notice]
    manager: YES, THOSE ARE SHOES.
    lifter: Jesus Christ. *puts on shoes until manager leaves*

  45. @Maslow Carl Sagan speaks to you during your 20 rep squats? I tend forget there’s a bar on me, so when I finish, if I walk, I feel like I’m floating anywhere I go.

    @domjo Your lay back isn’t anywhere close to too much. Watch your video and notice how little your torso travels forward after the point when the bar clears your forehead. You’re mistaking moving your head for your chest. The lockout’s greatly improved if you get under the weight.

    @TBone I think it’s funny your coaches can see you progress on front squats, and your total while doing HBBS and LBBS, then tell you LBBS are bad and shouldn’t be part of how you reach your goal because other champion weightlifters don’t do them.

    I’ve done them, my legs grow, they raise my front squat, a clean has never pinned me. How bad can they be?

  46. There was a bodyweight deadlift for reps competition at the base gym tonight. Guys did their bodyweight and girls lifted half their bodyweight. My girlfriend and I won first place for the girls and guys, respectively. Both are PRs since we have both never lifted deadlifts for endurance before.

    My girlfriend, Alicia, weighed in 107lbs did about 60% of her bodyweight for 65lbs since the smallest plates they had were 10lbs and she didn’t want to do deficit deadlifts in the comp. I weighed in at 187lbs and lifted 187lbs.

    Alicia did 65 reps at 65lbs (video below)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aGbstr2afM

    I did 56 reps at 187lbs and there isn’t a video. The camera was on picture taking mode and didn’t get switched in time for my set.

  48. This Weeks PRs:

    Squat 395 3×5
    Bench 295 3×5
    Deadlift 445 1×5

    Pinched a nerve in my left shoulder. Gave it some rest but been training through it since I am planning to compete next month. Icing has been ineffective as expected.

    Anyone have suggestions for pinched nerve treatment? It’s just a painful annoyance.

  49. @Antigen – Sigh. I know. I can’t win, haha. I don’t think Glenn is an idiot and I don’t think Rip is an idiot and I don’t think Pete is an idiot, but the fact is that they don’t agree on everything. I don’t actually think that I fuck up my straight training line by continually going off in different directions. I have a program, and I stick to it, and I make progress. I am good at sticking to a program. It just isn’t the program that any one coach has handed me, and therefore, it is irritating to coaches because they all want me doing their program exactly as written. It is not irritating to me because I keep setting PRs. And, in the end, if I drive any one coach so insane that he just can’t handle it, then he can stop offering me advice. But, I feel confident that that won’t happen because I am a decent lifter, and more importantly, I am interesting and fun and awesome.

    If anyone desires a vacation and weightlifting competition in North Carolina, February 26 is the Triad Barbell Open where I will be qualifying for Masters Worlds. It’s a sanctioned event. $50. I’m wearing a hot pink and black zebra singlet, which rocks. http://weightliftingevents.com/

  50. @TBone

    “I’m wearing a hot pink and black zebra singlet, which rocks.”

    Lol, nice one – it’d be worth the entry fee just to see this!

    @Don Stevenson

    Is this the Don Stevenson from the State Sports Centre in Sydney, NSW, by any chance?

    After writing my post a bit further up, i’ve made a decision – i just need to harden the fuck up and work harder. Guys like Bill Starr never had coaching when they were learning – all they had were magazine photos, but they worked it out and got stronger than 3 week old piss.

    I’m sick of squats being my goat, so I’m going to work like a mofo and make them my bitch. It’s fucking disgraceful struggling with such meager weights. (Note: i may have wandered off to Chaos & Pain this afternoon, and i think a little rage rubbed off)

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