Not Impressed

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Spring semesters all over the country are coming to a close. For most college football programs, this means that most of the athletes will go home for a couple of months before coming back for pre-season practice before school starts. A typical program will put their players through a gamut of tests to see how well (or not?) they improved. The LSU football did such a thing, and recently posted an article about it.



Before I say anything else, let me clarify that I’m an SEC guy. I like LSU in the sense that I will root for them when they play non-conference teams. I’ve watched many memorable games (my favorite being a defensive showdown a few years ago with Auburn — the 4th quarter was amazing). SEC Football is typically some of the most impressive, exciting college football in the country. The teams yield impressive athletes and the conference is known for the quality of intra-conference competition. I’m not crazy about one college football team or another, but I do dislike some teams. LSU is not one of those teams. I say all this, because college football fans are fucking nut jobs and I don’t really care to get into a crazy fan war.

With all that being said, one phrase comes to mind when I see the results of LSU’s testing:
Not impressed.

Sorry. Scroll down in that article and look at the top 5 squatters. 545, 535 (3 times), and 510. Really? These guys are the cream of the genetic crop from high school. Some of them may have a shot at the NFL, and they play on one of the best teams in one of the best conferences in the country. Even I squatted 500 for an easy triple a few weeks ago. I will give Patrick Peterson some props — he’s a cornerback listed at 6’1 and 211 (which means he’s actually 5’10” and 195). In other words, he is almost squatting the most on the team weighing around 200 pounds while there are guys who weigh 290+.

Yes, I understand these guys are football players and their primary “sport” is not lifting. But I really expected to see some 600+ squats on the team. Maybe even 700.

I’m not really impressed with the clean numbers either. The best clean, which was a school record, is 374. Granted, I’ve never cleaned 170 kg yet (I’ve done 165), I just really expected these genetic freaks to be doing more. It is important to note that Michael Ford (a sophomore running back who is listed at 5’10” and 207) led the team with a 42″ vertical jump AND was third on the team with a 352 lb clean. There is definitely a correlation between these two activities, and neuromuscular efficiency dictates this. It’s genetic, so you either have it or you don’t. Sorry I’m not sorry.

The other lifts tested were the jerk (which I found surprising, but good on them for incorporating the jerk into their program and getting pretty decent numbers) and bench press. Now, these fulls definitely went into beast mode on the bench. The top BP was Drake Nevis, a defensive lineman listed at 6’1″ and 292 lbs, at 475 lbs. Obviously these guys are raw, and that’s damned impressive. Guess who got second on the BP? Michael Ford at 425. Read that again — a 207 lb running back just benched 425. Fuck.

The hand timed 40 yard dash is iffy, though. If you’ve ever followed SEC 40 times (cough, cough, Florida), then you know they are comically low. The fastest time was Patrick Peterson, that little ol’ cornerback who squatted 535. Now, it is hand timed, but if you have a dude like that running that fast with that kind of strength behind him…he’s gonna do some damage.

Guys like Patrick Peterson, Michael Ford, and Drake Nevis are why football continues to be an impressive sport. Knowing that they possess that kind of ability makes me want to follow them throughout the season. I like guys that work hard in the gym.

But, football is a game that is dependent on the hips, and this makes squatting and cleans the most important exercises to improve performance. I would have assumed these lifts would have been monstrous, and they are right about what I am capable of. I coached somebody who played football in college with Brian Urlacher, and they said he power cleaned 405. That’s the kind of stuff I expected to see. Until I see some 600 pound squats, I will continue to be “not impressed” no matter how good their 40 times or bench presses are.

51 thoughts on “Not Impressed”

  1. This is something I know a little bit about as I work as an assistant in the UC Davis strength gym and I work with the Football team specifically. Really, those numbers aren’t all that unusual and for good reasons. First off, you have to remember that these athletes are pretty young and despite their “genetic freak” ability, they often haven’t had years of lifting experience. We have some that are decent and quite a few have been coached by HS strength coaches that have no clue what they’re doing.

    I will accept that as something that is going on less than 50% of the time. I was in a largely populated area and had a “better than most” strength program before I played college football. Usually a true genetic freak will make progress and get strong despite bad techniques.

    Second, typically, many football teams only test once a year, in December or January after the season. At that point the guys are pretty beat up from a long season and aren’t as strong as they have the potential to be. I don’t know of many teams that actually test in spring because you don’t want to beat your guys up too much during camps. Many teams will test after the season and release the results about this time, usually as a promo before spring games and such.

    A bit of a moot point because the article states they did this the week before finals. I’m pretty sure the school that I coached at did it in April or May, but you are probably mostly correct as to when other schools do their testing.

    Finally, a big part of being a college strength coach is not hurting your players. Some coaches won’t even let their guys go for 1RMs and some will only let players attempt a 1RM based on a 3RM calculation of what it would be. Our guys for instance don’t test a 1RM squat or DL. We go with a 3RM parallel box squat and don’t bother listing the DL because we just don’t do it enough. We do have a power clean test and believe me, considering the form these guys have, the weight they put up is pretty impressive. We have a guy who PCs 385 with an early arm bend and something resembling a split catch. He is a genetic freak when it comes to strength. If he practiced Cleans he could probably hit 485 but for our purposes it just isn’t worth the time (we really don’t have the time even if we wanted to) to teach him how to perform complex movements like the clean perfectly. For the record, our head strength coach, the guy I work under is named Matt Brand and I witnessed him squat 715 for a triple last Wednesday.

    This is the most telling point. Yes football players are supposed to be strong, but strength coaches have a hard time getting their guys to do what they want them to do because of the time factor. When you have football related stuff, school related stuff, then whatever the hell else the players are doing, the strength and conditioning program turns into something that is a requirement. A large amount of guys will probably go through the motions just because of their hectic schedule anyway, and then the guys that are committed don’t have a lot of time under the bar as you say. And the most important point you are making, which is absolutely true, is that you shall not and will not hurt the players as a college strength guy. I think that fear interferes with optimal performance, but if the S&C coach hurts a start player, head football coach is gonna be pissed and the AD is gonna hear about.

    My “not impressed” is real on the squat, though. I would still have expected guys to be tripling 550 in the gym in a program like this. Yet, I do like the fact that the players are cleaning and jerking (not too many programs will include the jerk).

    The crappy thing, as you pointed out, is that there just isn’t a whole lot of time. I don’t know what logistically I would do in a situation like that, but from programs I’ve had to implement when working at S&C facilities and what I’ve seen…these programs can be simplified to include the complex barbell movements.

    Anyway, thanks for the thoughts and points. Oh, and Brand sounds insane.

    –Justin

  3. problem is, Justin, most of the coaches are not able to teach the lifts correctly, and program the weekly routine so it lets the athletes to recover and progress.

    I’m not going to get into coach bashing, but genetically superior guys can make superior gains compared to an average person regardless of a program. It happens all the time.

    –Justin

    i’ll get into coach bashing. football s&c coaches suck

    – brent

  4. YES! this is awesome. Im with you on the fact that I am not hell bent for any team, although I am a Big 10 fan. Either way, I am sure there are genetic freaks on the team, but the programming and actual training (or lack thereof) is disgusting. There is no rhyme or reason to their training and I would say that any numbers they put up are a production of mommy and daddy, and not due to the program at all..

    What school are you talking about here?

    –Justin

    sounds like Arizona Razorbacks

    – brent

  5. Relevant:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJKuIMOB6i8

    I realize these guys aren’t Olympic lifters, they’re football players, but form like this is just hilarious. Considering none of my lifts even touch 455 lbs. I probably shouldn’t be talking, and theres no doubt that Phil Costa (in the video) is strong as hell, but it almost seems to be at the point of putting himself at risk for injury – knees collapsing in on the ‘first pull,’ etc. Thoughts?

    I just wish they wouldn’t call it a clean. If anything that’s a continental clean.

    –Justin

    i mean if you want to get really technical we could call it a European continental neopolitan clean, but that’s neither here nor there

    – brent

  6. Haha thats a very interesting clean. A deadlift with straps into a qraduple bounce, spradle leg clean. Still, pretty impressive. Imagine what he could do with a little technique.

  7. @ Jesco.. why wouldn’t it be worth while to teach the guys to lift properly? If strength is such a large factor in football, improving someones clean from 385 to 450+ seems like a good idea…perhaps not in season, but what about in the off season?
    As far as technique is concerned i have yet to see a technically sound lift in either the squat or the clean but to me as well it makes sense to teach the lifts so that they are executed correctly strictly from an injury prevention perspective. Also i would hardly consider the above video as a clean or a hang clean despite the fact that it’s 455.

    If it is done, then the guys would have to be brought in small groups to learn the movements like squat, press, deadlift, and power clean. It would take a lot of effort, but it would be necessary. That would be my goal if I ever took over a program, and I don’t think I ever would because of the big giant pain in the ass it would be.

    –Justin

  8. @ Jon B – I’m sure it would be worthwhile – if he had the time. When you have 50-80 guys on a team and you are the only coach, well, how are you supposed to give each player enough individual attention to be able to correct flaws and teach nuances of technique constantly? And that’s for every single lift, and it’s also assuming that said coach is experienced enough in the oly lifts, powerlifting, etc, to adequately provide said coaching. When you combine in the fact that they also have to get in a lot of sport-specific drills and conditioning work in a limited time then you can see how nearly impossible it would be.

    Well, the entire team isn’t typically in the weight room at one time. Be fair. Each school is probably different, but it’s probably separated into backs/receivers, and then combos/lineman.

    –Justin

  10. I realize this post is a little bit controversial and intended to spark some debate….so Ill bite.

    You have to realize the time restrictions imposed on the athletes and the goals of their training as a whole. The GOAL is being a better football. Yes, strength is a crucial element to that, thus the hard work spent in the gym. But, so is film study, learning the playbook, position specific drills, team meetings, and oh yea…being a full time student.

    If you watched the John Welbourne interview Rip laments the lack of form on some the highschool/college lifters form. John explains they are just trying to train hip explosion. Doing the perfect power clean is not what anybody is focusing on. They are worried about executing ballistic movements with intensity. As a novice to power cleans, I can attest to the huge leaps in weight I can make when a rep is executed with a good form. They simply dont have the time to sit through 3 hour clinics on how to execute a lift properly. Better to monitor, get them at a certain baseline, and get them working HARD, because you dont have them for that long.

    I think taken from this view, their number are quite impressive considering their form is almost assuredly bad.

    And yes, plenty of guys here might be able to execute one movement with more weight than any given player….But how many of you have D1 Scholarships to play football? Strength is part of being a good football player, but being a good football player is the focus.

    Good post though and interesting discussion.

    It doesn’t take 3 hours to teach the lifts to a good athlete. See my logistics comment above.

    –Justin

  11. And another point because Im feeling verbose.

    Looking at all the work that is done in concurrence with strength training ie: Conditioning, agility, rehab for some, position specific drills.

    One must take into account the amount of recovery they are afforded. Must of us, when pursuing a strength routine, focus on strength and only strength. Milk + Heavy Lifting + Recovery.

    Looking at the regiment they follow, the fact that they make the progress on their lifts that they do…with all this ancillary work….speaks volumes about their genetic gifts.

    I don’t remember seeing a program on that article, did you? The point is that a simple barbell program that works the basic compound lifts is going to be better. I don’t know what LSU is doing, but most programs include a lot of ancillary bullshit because that is the trend in S&C these days — prehab and whatnot. Well, squatting/pressing/pulling correctly is enough prehab. And these guys could get really good gains out of doing something like this twice a week while still getting time in for all the other stuff they have to do.

    –Justin

  13. I don’t know much about training a football team, but with collision sports like football, rugby, hockey, lacrosse, it seems to me like it would be more important to be fast and powerful than it would to be to have really high absolute strength like you see in a 1RM. My 2 cents.

    How, exactly, do you think you get fast and powerful?

    Anyway, I have a confusing question about linear progression, and strength gains; what drives them? (It confuses me nonetheless) I have recently experienced a radical growth in the DL, Squat, Bench, Pull ups, weighted pull ups, and overall muscular endurance, but I haven’t gained 1 pound. I have gone from a 1rm on DL at 405 to pulling 400×5, I was squatting 3×5@250 a few months ago, now I’m at 5×5@330 (yes, with really good form.) Right now I weigh 180 and I have for the past 3 or 4 years, but I haven’t ever been this strong, and I feel like I still have a lot of room to grow. I have lifted and worked out since I was 13 or 14 (11 years ago) and I haven’t experienced strength gains like this in a long time. So what drives the gains I have made? I obviously don’t eat enough because I haven’t gained any weight, so is it genetics? I am not worried about the weight gaining yet, I still play lacrosse competitively and I don’t want to lose any speed due to a big jump in weight, but I know I am going to have to gain some weight at some point in order to reach my goals, the question is when. (400+ Squat, 300+ B, etc…) I am not sure if this even makes sense but after last night I got to thinking, and I figured I would ask some of the more knowledgeable/experienced guys that seem to frequent the comments boards around here.

    I’m not going to detail the entire first few chapters of Practical Programming. Sounds like you have reading to do.

    –Justin

  14. Lets not forget that these guys only get to focus on strength training for a couple months out of the year.

    So you have the training programs for most schools to make such a blanket statement?

    –Justin

  15. The fact that two of their best performers are freshman who haven’t even been in the program more than a few months is telling. LSU doesn’t have some recent success at recruiting – they’ve got years and years of excellent classes. There’s absolutely no way freshmen should be coming in and mopping up on 20-22 year old experienced players. Sounds to me like their strength coaches should go talk to these high school coaches that are putting out beasts.

    Remember that the profiles on the LSU website are a year old. Michael Ford is listed as a freshman, but he’s going to be a sophomore in the fall. But, yes, the underclassmen are doing well.

    –Justin

  16. As far as coaching goes, I would think, and this is an admittedly uninformed and basically worthless opinion, that spending time with the team leaders on form, and having them police the weight room would work well. Strive perfection in form AND strength and the team will follow. If the team is full of form-nazis, and everyone is getting strong as hell, it’ll spread. Same reason small PL gyms have more full squatters than megalogyms. It might take awhile, but I would think it would pay off with minimal time investments.

    Probably, but those “team leaders” would need to be leaders in the weight room, which isn’t always the case. I would think this type of mentality would be a gradual improvement, say over a year or two. I agree that it would be ideal, though.

    –Justin

  19. Wow, really suprised at this. I knew collegiate S&C was kind of shitty, but I at least expected to hear of some 650lb half squats. Good for them if the coaches made them squat to full depth (holy shit it is more unimpressive if they didn’t), but it is pretty sad that I, and a few of the other regulars here can hang with these physical specimens lifting. I’ve known a few buddies in D1 and D3 programs that were stronger than this, perhaps it’s just LSU?? Probably not.

  20. This isnt meant as an asshole post, but it reads that way.

    Im a dense, so can you please clarify? What is your thesis statement here? That they need to spend more time in the weight room? Need better coaching? Their programs suck?

    Im glad you picked LSU, because its a succesful program. On the field performance is all anyone cares about…Can you say the team would be more succesful ON THE FIELD with your program? Or just more succesful on testing days, which, are largely irrelevant.

    Are their programs that lacking? Is your model even feasible in this environment? (Logistically speaking)

    I’m not writing a fucking discertation. I’m just not impressed with the squat or clean numbers, and those are the ones that actually matter. I never made any such claims about “my program”, whatever that is. It’s a website post, not a scientific article.

    –Justin

  21. Thanks for the reply Justin. the medals were for a 7 a side tournament we won last weekend.

    In response to the person asking about why we don’t train them better, time really is the issue. For one thing, the NCAA only allows players to practice for a certain amount of hours each week. Time with the strength coaches counts as practice. We only get the guys three days a week for “official” training sessions. Budget also plays a role. We’re a smaller school so we only have 3 full time paid strength coaches plus a few assistants/interns like myself. We also have 26 other varsity sports to train. this means for football, we have one head coach and one assistant like myself to work with our football groups. We only have enough time to divide the guys into two groups, an am and pm workout group. So, between two people, and really, it’s just the head coach doing almost everything, we have about 30 guys to watch. We would love to have the time and resources to really get these guys lifting with great form but it’s just not going to happen.

    -Justin, if you’re ever interested I could get you in contact with Coach Brand if you want to interview him or something like that.

    All good points that will help people understand the pain-in-the-ass logistics of college S&C. And speaking with Brand would be cool.

    –Justin

  23. I think the fact of the matter is they could be stronger.

    i agree. really they are a bunch of under achievers. could be working a lot harder.

    – brent

    Don’t you dare try to troll on me Brentifford.

    –A.C.

  25. Aaron Curry, now of the Seattle Seahawks, power cleaning 374# while in college:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIsvP0FEeTo

    Pretty ugly form, but not terrible as football players go. It definitely doesn’t look as good when you consider he’s SHW by Oly weight classes.

    This is a pretty good college S&C type power clean. Yes, it could be better, but this is a shit ton better than that Maryland guy doing a horrible looking continental clean. Aaron’s power clean could be better, but this will have greater implications on his athletic prowess than the shitty continental clean. Thanks for the vid. Not to mention it’s a pretty good amount of weight for his size. He is legit, as his paycheck shows.

    –Justin

    “good amount of weight for his size?”

    Justin, compared to his bodyweight, this lift is worse than Franco’s 700lbs deadlift, which is not that good of a lift especially with regards to bodyweight

    not sure where you’re going with this

    – brent

  26. I’ve spent a decent amount of time as a strength coach, both as an asst. when I was still in college and a full-time coach at an ELITE private high school that could afford a full time strength staff. I’ve spent some time at UCLA observing how they run so I’ve seen some different things but the biggest thing that sticks out is TIME. These guys have an hour in the strength room. Teaching form is a major part of that hour but when you have 40 guys in the facility you need to get them through their workout and out to the field. You’re yelling at guys with rounded backs and other major flaws, but for the most part you can’t break down someone’s clean and teach him for 20mins. In a perfect world we could have them squatting heavy 5rms, and resting 3-5 mins between, but we just don’t have the time for that. I think most major S&C programs are doing a pretty good job for the time they have with the teams, but they still seem to catch a lot of flak from people who haven’t managed 40 athletes on the floor. My two cents. BTW Im no expert, just reporting what I see and problems I’ve run in to.

    I still think they could get a “clinic” type thing done in the beginning of the year to give them exposure to small group coaching before throwing them in the regular program. This is what I would implement if it were me.

    –Justin

  27. The massive smack of irony is that on one hand a S & C coach may say things like “we dont do blah blah blah because we dont want our players getting beat up”, then you’ll see the most ridiculously performed cleans (should we call them heave-star-jumps?) squats and bench press reps that look certain to end in tears.

    Smokes, is it really that hard to thoroughly devote the first semester of the freshman players to barbell mechanics? (I know the answer to this is that most S & C coaches dont know anything about barbell mechanics) And then is it really any harder to be able to put an end to a set of squats or cleans where the guy is about to blow his knee out and tell him to back the weight off. I think a few loud 6 word sentences where 3 of them are swear words would do wonders to stop some of the embarrassing performances seen posted on youtube from college weight rooms.

    Train the freshmen well in their first semester and within a small amount of time your program will have sound lifters putting up great numbers. Its amazing to see so many college football programs where the school record squat is under 600 and the school record clean is under 400.

  28. Just some food for thought.. Who feeds the need to test lifts and time runs?, Where do these athletes feed into? The NFL. It all starts there. The NFL has these players test their 40 times, bench press and vertical/long jumps. I truly believe that if the NFL started testing Squat, Clean and Jerk or/and the Snatch then you would see those lifts given more attention in the weight room.
    Just my 2-sense.

    These lifts are being done at LSU. Read the article.

    –Justin

  30. The crazy part is that they are as strong as they are!
    Having been a coach for a program that is run just like the LSU program (I’m mean exercise for exercise, rep for rep) it is amazing they are able to do what they do.
    The program itself is solid. It Focuses on Core lifts (squat, press, oly’s) however the problem lies in its execution. Each exercise is “super-set” with some type of “Pre-hab” exercise or abdominal exercise. These players are squating, pressing and cleaning with little to no actual rest. All in the name of increasing “work capacity”.
    If you’re posting on this site (and “you are doing the program”) I will assume that you are used to taking at least 3 minutes rest between sets. There is a big difference between doing heavy weighted sit-ups super-set with heavy squats and just sitting and fully resting before your next attempt.
    Could they be stronger? Yep. Are they pretty damn strong all things considered? Yep.

    I agree there is a difference doing what you detailed here, but I’m not surprised by their strength. Guys who are more genetically gifted will get strong on any program. That’s how it works.

    –Justin

  31. “Could they be stronger? Yep. Are they pretty damn strong all things considered? Yep.”

    I think this is the best way to sum it up. Well done…

  32. lots of commenting coming back, good stuff. Considering the comments from John Welbourn in the Rip interview as well as posts above from collegiate trainers, I can see how good form is tough to develop and enforce.

    But considering how genetically gifted D1 football players can be, is it worth it for them to spend time weight training if they’re not following a ‘good’ program/executing lifts with ‘good’ form? Could their game time performance be increased doing other things for that given time period or is it worth it for them to keep hitting the gym in the current fashion, whatever that may be at a given school? (just asking the question, not suggesting i know the answer)

    I guess your question is essentially asking, “Will these guys be better at football if they are stronger?”

    –Justin

  33. Hey Justin.

    A thought crossed my mind regarding the massive amount of femoral abduction during the catch portion of the oly lifting variations seen in college, to go with knees generally caving in on squats and dead lifts.

    Given a long enough time this is teaching a motor pathway, particular in the catch, that could lead to jumps and landings out on the field, ergo knee ligament tears. This would require a lot of study over a very large player sampling but its food for thought.

    You mean femoral abduction with the knees staying straight?

    Regardless, knee injuries generally occur when the foot is planted and the knee has some wicked forces acting on it, such as getting hit while planted or trying to make a cut or juke while it is planted.

    –Justin

  34. i wouldn`t be so easy onto jumping that `genetics this, genetics that`, i can bet that before he started lifting he didn`t jump 42` or even a foot under it. despite what rip might preach and say, other coaches have proved this, you CAN improve vertical jump, and not just by 3 inches.

    just saying.

    A foot?!?! Have you had experience with this?

    –Justin

  35. Dave, Rip said he thinks you can only improve someones vertical 3 inches? Do you have a link so I can read his reasoning?

    I would agree with half of that arguement about the role genetics play and say a mediocre “untrained” jumper will never be a GREAT jumper. But someone jumping 42″ I gurantee was jumping low to mid 30’s before he ever touched a barbell.

    Justin or anyone, Have you ever seen someone’s vertical go down after OLing? A buddy of mine was a good jumper (34″) and after about 6 months of C&J’s, Snatches and squats he was down to 31″. Never seen that happen with anyone else especially when all his lifts increased dramatically.

    I guess I could check myself. I haven’t checked in a year or so, and when I did it last year, I did it after my novice squat workout. What tests were used for the pre/post? Did he gain any body weight? Under what conditions was the post performed?

    –Justin

  36. Justin,

    No I haven’t coached in a college S&C facility, but having several athletes on the floor at once is not something strange to me. Yes, I realize several doesn’t equate to 40, however I see no reason why concrete steps can’t be taken to get these kids lifting better. Albeit it may happen on a slower time table than normal.

    If the athletes are lifting with whatever form they manage anyway, it seems like you’d be able to focus on one athlete per day to get them all moving better within a month or two instead of yelling at random people with countless flaws – which can’t be too efficient.

    Is there something that I’m missing or is that a workable scenario?

    This isn’t CrossFit. My point to you before was you asked Jesco, sarcastically, about not having enough time to coach the guys. Time is limited once things get underway. The best bet, as I said above, would be to teach them the lifts at the beginning of the semester in a crash course. Of course I would do my damndest to get them lifting better, but they would have had to been exposed to at least once for me to do that without having to break everything down big time. Once the semester gets going, logistics get in the way.

    On another note, I was just telling someone the other day how cool it was to watch people reload really fast. I saw your video(s), and that’s exactly what I was talking about. Pretty sweet.

    –Justin

  37. I mean femoral abduction to achieve depth for the catch rather than appropriate knee flexion. In the strong but poorly trained player the feet are out even wider than the knees with the knees about to cave in. Kind of replicating the forces seen ACL tears where there is no instance of collision with another player. i was wondering if this transfers onto the field regarding handling heavy forces in jumps and landings.

    To answer your question, I haven’t a clue. You seem to question if it weakens the knee, and I doubt it does. If it caused problems, it would be on the medial aspect anyway. The ACL prevents anterior displacement of the tibia, which may not be happening as much as the stress being imposed on the medial aspect of the knee. But I don’t think it will affect the instance of injury unless there is some other pre-existing pathology. But that’s just an educated guess.

    –Justin

  38. I’m not sure where you got CrossFit from in my post?

    Thanks for the kind words. On a related note, I may be in WF next March for a match. If you’re into that kind of thing, it’s definitely something you should check out. Some of the very best shooters in the world will be there.

    Your words sounded very CrossFitty. Talking bout “athletes” and getting them to “move better”. If you aren’t involved with it, then my mistake and apologies.

    I’m gonna e-mail you.

    –Justin

  39. UF

    Post season 3 x week, off season 3-4 x week, pre season 3 x week, in season 2 x week on non-consecutive days. The second strength training workout should be at least 48 hours pre competition. Workout length during the off season should not exceed 1 hour, inseason training may only last 30 minutes. Each major body part should be trained 2-3 x week on non consecutive days, 8-12 exercises per day, 1-3 work sets per exercise, 10-20 total work sets per workout.

    I didn’t have a problem with this until the very last sentence which was composed of ACSM and/or NSCA bullshit.

    –Justin

  40. “The University of Florida Strength and Conditioning Department is committed to providing each student-athlete with an innovative program to improve strength, power, speed, agility, conditioning, and flexibility.”

    They’re training toward a very specific goal and each of those criteria above must be considered. Power without agility does them no good, flexibility without strength is a liability, speed without conditioning is useless, etc….

    Strength is the fundamental capacity and foundation for all of those qualities.

    –Justin

  41. Another point is to look at the NFL Combine. The only true “strength” test is the bench press and several positions are exempt from even that. They’re much more interested in 40 times, shuttles and jumps.

    Ok? LSU isn’t training for the combine, and I advocate better football players, not combine guys. They go to Athlete’s Performance for stuff like that.

    –Justin

  42. “Strength is the fundamental capacity and foundation for all of those qualities.”

    But is there a point of diminishing returns?

    Sure, but judging by these numbers, we aren’t creeping into that territory. At that level, you can maintain speed, get stronger, and get the speed faster by virtue of the strength going up and all other variables staying constant (such as body weight for a receiver or corner).

    –Justin

  43. @MrMojoRisin

    I was thinking along the same lines, thus my asking for clarification from Justin.

    He thinks they arent lifting as much as they should be. Fair enough.

    But is he saying that the time they have in the weight room is time they are squandering? Or is he saying they should be spending MORE time in the weight room. In which case the question is…at the sacrifice of what else?

    Look, I respect everyones opinion. I just think its a bit presumptious for someone to throw daggers at these programs and then say “I probably would never do it because of all the Bullshit involved.”

    Right.

    I’m not saying anything about the S&C program. I’m just saying I would have thought they’d be stronger given the fact that this is a big time SEC program, and programs like that yield high caliber players who are genetically superior. There is probably a reason, but I’m ignorant to what they do there. LSU will experience success nevertheless, because they are a very good football program.

    –Justin

  44. Also, the NFL Combine is only a portion of the pro scouting that guys trying to get in the league. The pro days and individual workouts go into a lot more detail.

    I think the issue here is that the reported #’s are a good bit lower than the #’s from a school like UGA (Thomas Brown and Rennie Curran would tear them up in the weight room), who fans (incorrectly) think has a horrible S&C program.

    I played against Thomas Brown in high school. He’s the only running back to ever truck me (I played linebacker). He is a very strong mother fucker.

    –Justin

  45. And…..how has UGA been doing lately?

    LOL

    Historically (as in our lifetime) they are a pretty good program. They were 1-3 against top ten teams last year. That’s a telling statistic. They typically don’t have problems with coaching.

    And it’s my fault that I opened this can of worms of talking about college football. Now all the fanboys will spring out.

    –Justin

    UGA is garbage. their defense has huge holes and they don’t have the talent offensively to make decisive plays.

    – brent

  46. Every resource is finite though. They only have X number of days, trainers, dollars, etc…

    If they allocate more time and money for strength training they have to pull it from somewhere else. More days in the gym, less days running plays for example.

    I realize this, but I never suggested they train more.

    –Justin

  48. Sorry, 106 days until the first game and it’s been a long wait already.

    I didn’t make any LSU jokes, but I couldn’t let an UGA opportunity slip by.

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