Shawn had about a month off from training. You know what that asshole did on squats in his first session back? 135 for 5; 185 for 5; 225 for 5; 275 for 5; 315 for 3; 225 for 10; (next two sets are front squat) 135 for 10; 135 for 6 — that’s a shit-load of work. His normal work sets last year before the holiday were about 325 (he’s using 5/3/1; front squats are his assistance work). His structures weren’t adapted to doing any squats, and he subjected them to stress that was greater than what they could have handled before the layoff even occurred.
Sure, it was dumb. But calling Shawn an idiot relentlessly isn’t going to help his crippling soreness. He told me, “Dude, I am so fucking sore. I had to FALL onto the toilet seat to take a shit earlier.” Instead, I gave him advice on what to do in his next training session to alleviate that soreness. In the research this is called The Repeated Bout Effect and it’s used to reduce Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness (DOMS).
DOMS occurs as a result of doing something that the structures aren’t adapted to. This could include a significant change in volume and intensity, or it could occur from performing a new movement using structures through a different range of motion (ROM). For example, a CrossFitter would experience higher levels of soreness if they started squatting 3×5 at heavier weights than they handle in their met-cons. Conversely, a lifter would experience high levels of soreness if they tried a high repetition CrossFit met-con after being adapted to low repetition lifting (even more so since CrossFit will typically include new or different movements from the lifter’s normal training repertoire). DOMS typically peaks 24 to 48 hours after a bout of exercise. My personal experience and opinion is that the more adapted you are, the shorter the process to achieve peak soreness and subsequent loss of soreness (1).
For me, I can feel the soreness within 12 to 18 hours, and peak soreness occurs 18 to 24 before decreasing. When I was younger and doing bodybuilding stuff, I would routinely hit a peak of soreness at 48 hours. This may be due to a lack of adaptation or strength, but it could also be due to the fact that I did a lot more isolation work for the “body parts” that I was working that day as opposed to the lesser amount of work places on the specific muscles nowadays when I train my whole body each session.
The Repeated Bout Effect states that “subsequent bouts of the same exercise, repeated within several days to several months, do not produce as much damage as the first bout” (4). You can look at that from two perspectives. The first is that by doing very low intensity work (<50%) for a session, subsequent sessions will not produce as much DOMS (even up to 6 weeks after the initial bout of low-intensity work). The second is that if DOMS exists, then using some low-intensity work with the same muscles can help reduce their soreness. It's even shown that this adaptive effect is conferred to other muscles (3), but my assumption is that they are used in synergy with or stabilize the joints and structures of the movement performed (i.e. the external hip rotators may not apply hip extension in a movement, but their action will help stabilize the hip during the movement).
If we look at The Repeated Bout Effect as a preventative measure, then we would have begin our reintroduction to lifting after a layoff with a light day (something that I’ve suggested numerous times on this site). If we look at it as a treatment to crippling soreness — like Shawn’s situation above — then we can drop some light work into our next training session. Shawn will be training today — 48 hours after the squatting session. He’s scheduled to press with pressing assistance, yet I suggested that he squat the following: 135x5x2, 185×5 for one or two sets. This obviously doesn’t provide a stress to grow stronger, yet it provides a stress nonetheless via The Repeated Bout Effect. The research has observed the circumstances in which it can help alleviate soreness, yet the mechanism of how it occurs isn’t fully understood and it’s considered a phenomena. Some theories include neural, connective tissue or cellular adaptations as well as adaptation in excitation-contraction coupling or adaptation in the inflammatory response (2).
The trainee only needs to know how to prevent soreness since soreness can literally make it hard to take a shit, but it can also be debilitating to performance in the following training sessions. If you have extreme soreness due to a new movement or a change in work, then drop in some light exercises in a medium repetition scheme. Common soreness areas are the quads and groin from squats, proximal biceps tendon from dips, hamstrings from RDLs, or lumbar spine from deadlift (typically associated with severe rounding of the back). Muscles that are sore from squats or should just be worked with light squats, yet the other areas can be worked with related exercises. Light dumbbell flyes or push-ups could alleviate soreness in the upper body, and round back extensions (RBEs) or reverse hypers are best to use for the lumbar spine. Light good mornings, deadlifts, and RDLs could be used for hamstrings. Observant trainees will note that these exercises are often used in powerlifting programs as a preventative measure to alleviate soreness (especially in Russian programming — thanks Briskin).
Utilize these same methods if you have a training stoppage due to a meet, holidays, travelling, sickness, or injury, but use them in a light day and gradually increase the stress. I suggest taking a week and using Light-Medium-Moderate training days. Training isn’t a race; the more you can prevent injuries or overreaching, the more success you’ll have over a longer amount of time.
This is one of the few topics that actually has a great amount of quality research. Here are a few resources I used today.
1) Cleary, M.; Kimura, S.; Sitler, M.; Kendrick, Z. (2002). Temporal Pattern of the Repeated Bout Effect of Eccentric Exercise on Delayed-Onset Muscle Soreness. J Athl Train. 2002 Jan-Mar; 37(1): 32–36.
2) Nosaka, K.; Sakamoto, K.; Newton, M.; Sacco, P. (2001). The repeated bout effect of reduced-load eccentric exercise on elbow flexor muscle damage. Eur J Appl Phsiol, 85: 34-40.
3) Nosaka, Ken (2008). Muscle Soreness and Damage and the Repeated-Bout Effect. Skeletal muscle damage and repair (pp. 59–76). Human Kinetics. ISBN 9780736058674.
4) McHugh, M.P.; Connolly, D.A.J.; Eston, R.G.; Gleim, G.W. (1999). Exercise-Induced Muscle Damage and Potential Mechanisms for the Repeated Bout Effect. Sports Medicine, Volume 27, Number 3, 1 March 1999, pp. 157-170 (14).
1) Cleary, M.; Kimura, S.; Sitler, M.; Kendrick, Z. (2002). Temporal Pattern of the Repeated Bout Effect of Eccentric Exercise on Delayed-Onset Muscle Soreness. J Athl Train. 2002 Jan-Mar; 37(1): 32–36.
2) McHugh, M.P.; Connolly, D.A.J.; Eston, R.G.; Gleim, G.W. (1999). Exercise-Induced Muscle Damage and Potential Mechanisms for the Repeated Bout Effect. Sports Medicine, Volume 27, Number 3, 1 March 1999, pp. 157-170 (14).
3) Nosaka, Ken (2008). Muscle Soreness and Damage and the Repeated-Bout Effect. Skeletal muscle damage and repair (pp. 59–76). Human Kinetics. ISBN 9780736058674.
4)Nosaka, K.; Sakamoto, K.; Newton, M.; Sacco, P. (2001). The repeated bout effect of reduced-load eccentric exercise on elbow flexor muscle damage. Eur J Appl Phsiol, 85: 34-40.
Due to a hip flexor injury, I haven’t had a real squat training session since Nov 26. 2 days ago I was ready to get back into it and squatted:
135 x 5
185 x 5
225 x 5
275 x 3
315 x 5
315 x 5
315 x 5
315 x 5
315 x 10
I’m also sore.
I didn’t read any of this and am just assuming it’s about IBS.
Taking advice from a previous post, my first session back I worked up to 80% on bench and squats, and did a light set of deads. My soreness levels the next several days felt like a usual training session, IE barely noticeable.
Also, I’ve been squatting at least twice a week for the past almost two years, so I’m taking a few weeks to do PTTP deadlift/ press focused session. Deadlift needed form work anyway, so starting light again and practicing seemed like a good idea.
Unrelated question: If I film my squats for analysis, what angle works best?
45 front or back.
–Justin
This would never happen if you max out all day, every day.
For any of you guys that DL sumo, what cue do you use to start the lift?
Used “midfoot through floor” for conventional for the past couple years, but can’t find anything similar for sumo.
I can ask my friend Brooks who pulls well over 600 sumo-style in the USAPL at the 185ish weight class. I would assume “heels” would be a better cue than mid-foot though.
–Justin
That would be sincerely appreciated.
I stopped reading after “i had to fall on the toilet to take a shit”
hahaha
that’s about all I needed out of this post.
Justin, do you advocate the use of medicinal leeches for severe cases of DOMS?
Hair of the dog that bit you.
That picture gets me every time.
Hey Justin,
I’ve got a Q about RDL’s.
One of my legs seems to be a little bit longer than the other, which apparently isn’t super rare(?). It’s not a big difference, but at times I can feel it enough to be sure.
I’ve just added light RDL’s (135#) to my programming as a assitance lift (I’m doing 5/3/1) and trying to use correct form based on resoures such as 70sBig and Rip’s video on the SS website.
My problem is I feel I am hitting the hamstring on the longer leg a lot more than the shorter leg. I’ve played around with my form and taking a wider stance and/or wider grip on the bar seems to allow me to spread the load more evenly, but I’m not sure if this is a good idea or not wrt getting the most benefit out of the lift. Is this approach OK? Any better ideas?
I’d assume that it’s best to spread the load evenly across both legs/hamstrings as much as possible, but on the other hand, perhaps when I am squatting and deadlifting this same uneven distrubution of load is occuring and therefore the “dominant”(?) hamstring needs to be stronger? Is that crazy talk??
Any advice or comment would be great!!
@Josh:
According to my (excellent) chiropractor, leg-length variance is more often a cause of pelvic twist than skeletal leg-length. The difference in leg soreness likely supports that theory as you are probably pulling more with one side a bit.
I recommend a good chiro.
Just my .02
Sumo cues:
Keep the bar close
That is all that is necessary.
So say you are on a 3- or 4-day per week program. You get extremely sore and are experienced enough to know that you absolutely will not be able to work through it to complete your scheduled training, so you do a quick light day. Do you return to the gym the very next day to attempt your scheduled work from the day before, or take a day off?
@Nolan
But how do you start the pull? Lift the chest, push the floor, something else?
Once I’m in position I’m like ok now what. With conventional it was a very simple push against the floor.
@Josh
I was competing in a CrossFit competition once (egads!) and started having soreness all along the top of my left buttocks/low back. There was a chiro there that did ART treatment. The first thing he did was have me lay face down and bend my knees so that the bottoms of my feet were facing the cieling so he could compare “leg length”. It turned out that my left foot was nearly and inch lower than my right. He did some work on my left hip and low back and re-tested and it took about 3/4 of the difference away.
Moral of the story, get yourself a lacrosse ball and roll your low back/glute/hip really well on the “short” side before your next workout and see if you can get a better hammy stretch that way.
Hey Justin,
I suppose this ties into this topic but, I am going on vacation for about two weeks from late February into March. When I return how should I approach my training?
Should I do a GPP approach w/non eccentric conditioning the first week with moderate volume & low intensity? Definitely need some insight on this as I do not plan on doing any heavy squatting or pressing/pulling.
I will be in Europe so maybe walking and body weight exercises will be utilized to maintain some level of fitness.
Thanks!
rolling out the quads after one of those sessions is a great character building excercise
Do you guys think foam rolling actually reduces soreness? I can never decide. I once tried only doing one of my legs and couldn’t really tell a difference in soreness pain the next day, although the rolled leg was more mobile.
That I don’t know, when I get the bar to my start position I just pick it up. Deadlifting isn’t much more complicated than that.
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