Low Bar vs High Bar Squatting

If you’ve been involved in various online training communities like CrossFit, Starting Strength, the Pendlay Forum, Strength Villain, Bodybuilding.com, StrongLifts, 70’s Big, or others, you may have seen trainees making the distinction between the low bar and high bar styles of squatting. There’s even been some (in)famous arguments on these forums (I remember the Rippetoe/Everett one being particularly laborious on the CF forums). This post aims to explain the utility in differences in these squats as well as when to use them.

Before we begin, much like the post on CrossFit, I have a unique history on the topic. The primary proponent of the low bar squat is Mark Rippetoe and I worked closely with him for a year and half. I’m one of the few people who used the low bar squat for a long period of time and then transitioned into Olympic weightlifting. I also have a thorough understanding of the low bar squat and how to coach it, and this sets me apart from anyone who scoffs at it. Don’t assume that makes me a disciple of the movement or of Rippetoe. This will be a relevant discussion with logical reasoning behind every point.

What is the Low and High Bar Squat?
[spoiler]
Illustration from Starting Strength, 2nd ed., reproduced with permission by The Aasgaard Company
Front, High Bar, and Low Bar squats

I pulled the above image from a CrossFit site, but it comes from Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe and Lon Kilgore. Lon drew this series of squat styles to show the difference in the front squat, high bar squat, and low bar squat. In any compound barbell lift done with the lifter standing on the ground, mechanical efficiency is achieved by the bar having a vertical relationship with the middle of the foot. If it travels in front or behind this point, then there is a mechanical disadvantage do to the creation of lever arms.

The placement of the bar will change the lifter’s necessary positioning to maintain the bar/mid-foot relationship. The front squat has the bar racked on the deltoids, so in order to keep the bar over the mid-foot, the torso must be very vertical. In the high bar squat, the bar shifts to sit on the traps (but not the seventh cervical vertebrae) and the lifter has a slight inclination forward, yet still remains pretty vertical to keep the bar over the mid-foot. Contrast these two positions with the low bar (on the right of the picture above) in which the bar is moved down to sit on the rear deltoids and across the spine of the scapula. In this position, the lifter must incline his torso more forward in order to keep the bar over the mid-foot. Also note that the verticality (not a word) of the squat style changes the knee position; the more vertical the squat, the more forward the knees. This is important for understanding muscular recruitment.

The high bar is a simple “go down, squat up” kind of movement. In contrast, the low bar squat requires much more attention to detail and is more difficult to do correctly. The low bar focuses on creating a stretch reflex with the hamstrings out of the bottom and a focus on “hip drive” to put an emphasis on using the extensors of the hip on the ascent. [/spoiler]

Differences in Muscular Recruitment
[spoiler]The positioning of the bar will dictate what mechanics must be used to maintain lifting efficiency. The mechanics will dictate what musculature is used. Succinctly, more vertical squat techniques use the quads and glutes as the primary movers while the low bar puts a premium on the posterior chain (particularly the hamstrings) for hip drive. The low bar squat also has a balanced anterior/posterior force at the knee because the focus on the hamstring contraction pulls back on the knee. In contrast, the high bar has more of an anterior stress since the quads are the primary movers and attach at the front of the knee at the patella. There is some quadriceps involvement in the low bar squat, but not nearly as much as the high bar squat. There is a little hamstring involvement in the high bar (see below), but not nearly as much as the low bar squat.

The forward knee placement in the front and high bar squats result in an acute knee angle. An acute knee angle means that the hamstrings — crossing the knee and hip joints — are contracted and slackened. If the hamstrings are fully contracted, then they cannot contract to help extend the hip out of the hole. This means that in vertical squatting styles, there is no hamstring involvement out of the hole, and limited involvement throughout the ascent. However, note the slight torso difference between the front and high bar squats; the inclination in the high bar style provides more of an angle that allows some hamstring tension. The upper two-thirds of the ascent of a high bar squat can have assistance by the hamstrings to hold the back angle in place (the same way that they do with the low bar or a deadlift). This makes sense as the position can re-apply tension on the hamstrings once the knees are no longer acutely flexed. I have felt this when high bar squatting, but you can see it during these hellacious sets that Max Aita did at California Strength.

To clarify the hamstring involvement during the high bar: the descent occurs, the knees flex acutely at the bottom in the hole, the ascent begins with zero hamstring tension due to knee flexion, as the knee angle opens the hamstrings can receive tension, and there is hamstring tension during the ascent. Note that this tension is not a primary mover due to the torso angle.

In contrast, the low bar squat maintains tension throughout the descent, creates a stretch reflex to “bounce” off the tense hamstrings, and then utilizes the hamstrings to extend the hip. During the ascent, the quads obviously extend the knee, but they help create balance around the knee so that the hip drive doesn’t tip the torso forward (the torso obviously needs to maintain it’s angle out of the hole). Since this style of squatting is dependent on the hamstrings, the body’s positioning — particularly the knees — is much more important. If the knees shift forward at the bottom, then hamstring tension will decrease and will result in no bounce whatsoever. Discussing other faults in the low bar squat leaves the scope of this post. [/spoiler]

Pros/Cons of the Low Bar Squat

[spoiler]The low bar squat is said to “use more muscles” than the high bar squat. This may not be an accurate statement since all squatting will use the thigh and hip muscles, but it definitely uses the musculature differently. It puts a premium on training the posterior chain; this makes it useful for general strength trainees, athletes, and powerlifters. General strength trainees and athletes need to get the most strong in the time they spend training, so squatting with a hamstring-focused style can help that. Most trainees and athletes have weak posterior chains anyway. For raw powerlifters, they will be able to lift more weight in the long run by efficiently using all of the musculature in their competition squat. Powerlifters in their first few years of training will get the most out of using the low bar squat.

The low bar squat can also help very weak and novice trainees improve the second pull of their Olympic lifts. During my linear progression, I saw a direct correlation with my low bar squat numbers and my power snatch and power clean. I’ve seen this with other lifters and it makes sense; the posterior chain is responsible for the fast extension of the hips in the clean or snatch. The purpose of this post isn’t to discuss Olympic weightlifting programming, but the low bar squat is not productive for teaching and ingraining proper receiving position in the snatch or clean. The low bar squat will train the thigh and hip muscles differently, and the high bar squat most closely resembles the snatch and clean should be used regularly.

General strength trainees or athletes may not need to do the full clean or snatch to improve their ability to display power, so the high bar squat may not be necessary for them. Yet, as always, it depends on the individual. There aren’t too many trainees who have a dominant posterior chain, but if this existed, the high bar squat would help improve this balance. Please note that a heavy deadlift is not a representation of posterior chain strength.

Some other problems with the low bar squat include it’s difficulty. It’s not easy to do properly. This doesn’t mean it should be avoided, but some trainees do such a shitty job of executing it that it’d be better if could wait to receive proper coaching. Also, some trainees don’t have enough flexibility in their shoulders to put the bar in the right position. When they attempt to do so, it may result in shoulder, wrist, or elbow pain. If any problems in those joints become debilitating to training, the trainee should use a different style of squatting until they a) alleviate the painful symptoms and — more importantly — b) address the underlying mobility problem that is causing the pain.

Another benefit of the low bar is that the force around the knee is balanced because the hamstrings are pulling back on the tibia. People with knee pain will want to utilize the low bar squat. If the knee pain is from pathology, this may be their preferred style of squatting. If the trainee is young and healthy but experiences knee pain in squatting, this style of squatting can reduce the stress applied to the front of the knee and act as a transition exercise to other forms of squatting.

Summary: The low bar is good for general strength training and powerlifting, yet it’s difficult to do well. It may have a place — much like the bench press — in beginner Olympic weightlifting training depending on the trainees weaknesses, but probably shouldn’t be used beyond the beginning stages.[/spoiler]

Pros and Cons of the High Bar Squat
[spoiler]While the low bar does utilize the posterior chain better than the high bar squat, that doesn’t mean the high bar is worthless. The hamstrings will grow in the low bar, yet the quads may not achieve their muscularity and fullness. The high bar utilizes the quads and can help develop the anterior aspect of the thigh — in other words, it helps create bouldered (also not a word) quads. It’s not limited to aesthetics, because the high bar squat will develop the strength of the quads as well. I’ve seen various types of low bar squatters with deficiencies in their quads. After dropping in front or high bar squats in their program, their low bar technique improves. Mike, for example, uses high bar in his advanced Texas Method template (this is discussed in detail in Part 2 of the Texas Method e-book). If you’ve been using the low bar for at least a year, consider using some high bar to balance out your training.

Chronic high bar use can neglect the hamstrings, and this is why I always make a point to program RDLs with the high bar squat. Keep in mind that the low bar squat’s purpose is to utilize the hamstrings, yet there is a portion of the population who low bars but doesn’t have good hamstring development. Low bar squatting doesn’t guarantee good hamstring strength.

If a trainee has pathology in their knee, then high bar squats may provide too much anterior force and result in knee pain. If the trainee is younger and injury free, and they have pain with high bar squats, they may want to check that they aren’t going “ass to grass” (which isn’t necessary until intermediate stages of Olympic weightlifting training anyway) and allow their knees to adapt to two or three sessions a week before having a higher frequency.

High bar squats are obviously preferable for Olympic weightlifting as the squat mechanically mimics the receiving position in the snatch and clean. Also, if the trainee has been low barring for a long time, they will have developed musculature to support those mechanics. By high barring, they can create a balance in their musculature that allows for better weightlifting. For example, when I got into Olympic weightlifting after low bar squatting for about nine months, I definitely experienced problems with heavy front squats and overhead squat positioning. After front squatting more, my positioning improved. At the time I didn’t high bar, but I do nowadays and feel it’s utility when doing the Olympic lifts.

If the low bar squat is difficult or injurious to the shoulders, then just high bar squat. The low bar may have more utility for general populations, yet if it’s debilitating other squat forms should be used. Besides, the hamstrings can still be trained with some properly executed assistance exercises, though it won’t be as effective as the low bar squat.

Summary: The high bar squat is superior for Olympic weightlifting because it teaches proper clean/snatch receiving positioning. If there are problems with the low bar squat, then the high bar can be used to balance musculature or maintain squatting frequency. However, the high bar doesn’t utilize the hamstring’s stretch reflex nor does it develop the posterior chain. [/spoiler]

Verdict
[spoiler]It doesn’t fucking matter. Seriously. A few weeks ago a kid asked me what muscles an assistance exercise I was doing worked, and I briefly explained it, but followed it up with, “But you really only need to be squatting. Don’t worry about this other shit.”

If you’re gonna be a powerlifter, then use the low bar. If you’re going to compete in Olympic weightlifting, then use the high bar. If you have deficiencies in one area, then the other squat can improve that deficiency. If you can do both reasonably well and aren’t training for one of the barbell sports, then use both.

In powerlifting the high bar can improve the top half or two-thirds of the ascent of the competition squat but would only be used by experienced lifters. In weightlifting the low bar squat can help improve the second pull but would only be used by inexperienced lifters. General strength trainees should just worry about their weakness. If they are balanced, then they shouldn’t give a shit and use the squat style that will help achieve their goals. And that’s what it’s really about: use the lifts that will help achieve your goals from a muscular development, strength, and mechanics perspective.

To learn how to low bar squat, then check out Starting Strength. To learn how to high bar squat, put a bar on your back and squat all the way down with your knees shoved out. There’s utility in both. If you’re confused, just pick one and do it at least twice a week.
[/spoiler]

101 thoughts on “Low Bar vs High Bar Squatting

  1. Really good explanations here. It’d be great if you made more of these comparison articles, perhaps sumo vs. “regular” deadlifts, etc.

    So for a guy like me who has 2.5 years training and who is mainly interested in squatting as much weight as possible in powerlifing meets, I’m going to be sticking with the low bar. But I don’t want to develop any of the cons you mentioned. I’d read about these issues before in SS and elsewhere, so I’ve started doing Fronts and Highs in my warm ups before doing low bar for the heavy sets. Is that a good idea/adequate? Or am I going to need to somehow program in some high bar/front work set training sessions. I don’t give a shit if my legs are bouldered or not, I just want to be brutally strong and healthy.

    You probably won’t have to worry about any cons for a while. Which one(s) were you referring to?

    –Justin

  2. Thanks. The cons I was referring to basically quad strength development and wrist flexibility. I don’t care about how the leg looks but I want it to be as strong as possible. The main reason I started doing the fronts for my early warm up sets is I added power cleans to my programming and could not get a good rack. After a month I no longer have an issue. I also feel the front squats and high bars a little differently/more in my low back/hip connection area, so I don’t know if that means I should do them more or if it just means they work that area more due to posture.

  3. Something I’ve wondered that this post made me think about, is the whole idea of “hip drive” not just knee extension? I mean, when you watch videos of Rippetoe coaching hip drive like this one…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=yha2XAc2qu8#t=57s

    …he is saying “drive up with your butt”. To accomplish that, you extend at the knee. It’s like a leg extension where the foot plate is stationary and you are pushing your body back instead. I’ve never heard an explanation of how “hip drive” actually uses the hips, it uses the quads! In the video at about 1:00 you see him coaching hip drive by letting the back angle stay the same while he focuses on driving up the ass. If the back angle isn’t opening or closing, the muscles in the hip are only working isometrically to maintain the same hip angle.

    To me it seems like the muscles of the hips as well as the hamstrings have no actual bearing on the vertical up and down movement of the ass that is referred to as “hip drive”. Anyone able to explain to me what I’m getting wrong?

  4. As a guy with stupid-long femurs, the slightly more vertical torso that high bar allows is the difference between effective training and constant lower back injuries.

    Switching from LB to HB was like moving a bunch of the load from my lower back to my quads, which is fine with me as my quads suck.

  5. I like this analysis.

    You’ve got three strength coaches (John, Everett, Rippetoe) who each prefer different squat styles (Front, High, Low) and are all respected. Conclusion: it doesn’t matter that much as long as you’re squatting.

    Yes, there are nuances to each style that a good coach should be aware of. I start everyone off with Low Bar because almost everyone is posterior chain deficient. Then I add in front squats for contrast and to develop the upper back and quads.

    You could just as easily do high bar and split the difference.

  6. Nice article, Justin, this clears things up quite a bit. I do have one question, though. Since you mentioned that the main reason why high bar was better for Olympic lifting was that it teaches the receiving position on clean/snatch better, why not just add in front squats and overhead squats since those are the exact catch positions of the clean/snatch?

    I answered this in a later post (and especially the Q&A coming out Friday), but mostly because a) high bar can have a greater progressive overload than front or overhead squats (overhead isn’t really relevant for a strength stimulus, more of improving overhead position) and b) using low bar reinforces a different movement pattern than what is actually necessary in the lifts (it’s like practicing pitching underhand, and then trying to do overhand in a game).

    –Justin

  7. You said that deadlifts don’t count for posterior chain strength. Can you explain that a little more? What’s missing from the posterior chain in the deadlift?

  8. This post pretty much summarized my exact thoughts on the matter.

    I don’t see what about this post would cause a shit storm(as you mentioned on facebook). Very reasonable, lays out pros and cons for both.

    It seems like people accuse low bar fans of being Rip fanboys, despite the fact that it’s a perfectly legit way to squat. I am no longer a blind Rip believer, but low bar is still the way I like to squat, and it allows me to put more weight up which is what matters out there on the platform.

  9. Getting caught up on 70s Big after some time away from the screen…

    Regarding *cleaning presses*, do you recommend putting the bar back down on the floor and cleaning it again between each press rep if one’s doing a set of several presses.

    Is it necessary to adjust either the typical clean grip or typical press-from-the-rack grip to do this? Or should they already be the same?

    Any reason to always focus on making the press strict? I’ve always avoided any leg drive in order to emphasize the press as much as possible. Am I missing out on some gains since I could move more weight if I added a little leg drive as you do in that second video? My purpose in doing presses is because strong people like you, Rip, Hepburn et al say to do them. I want to be a strong person and have healthy shoulders, plus any side benefits to my bench strength is a bonus.

    Is this still advisable if you don’t have bumper plates to drop the bar down on to? The prospect of having a bar bump my thighs 10+ times twice a week isn’t very appealing, but I seem to recall Bill Starr harping about how this is how it was done in the old days when chest hair and strength were in vogue. So I’ll do it if you think it’s a good idea and figure out how to set it down nicely.

    Thank you.

  10. What about the “middle bar” squats like used in the IPF?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5XlOChwhLI

    Isn’t the low bar squat much more adapted to raw squatting than it is to single-ply powerlifting, where the suit and wraps will assist you out of the bottom position and where strength in the quads is crucial?

    That’s a low bar. Different grip and eye position, bar in the same place.

    –Justin

  11. Though not directly related to hi-bar vs low-bar debate, I have a question regarding foot placement during low-bar squats. I’ve been trying to fix my squat lately by using different cues (had trouble with hips shooting up before my shoulders) and started using a wider stance during low-bar squats. We use a Westside-type training program at my gym and during the dynamic training days, I recently noticed some groin pain in what I believe to be my adductors during low box squats–more specifically, during the concentric phase, just before lockout at the top. I don’t feel any other similar pain going down to the bottom or during any other type of squats I do (front, narrow stance, hi-bar, or any other hip extension movements), so I am thinking this is due to my wide stance (the insides of my feet are about 1-2 inches outside of my shoulders, toes pointed out slightly).

    I am a pretty flexible person, so I was a little worried about whether I should continue with such a wide stance. Is this a sign that I need stronger adductors and/or a better warm-up? I do warm ups exercises before squatting, pvc pipe rolled, and did some quadruped hip mobility movements before I squatted. I’m thinking I will just squat with a narrower stance from now on, but I want to make sure I’m not doing it to avoid working on a possible adductor weakness. Thanks!

  12. This is super helpful. I was also wondering about jcdyer’s question. I’ve been starting to suspect that I am a posterior-chain dominant unicorn.

    I haven’t squatted heavy in about six months, following a hip injury. (I’ve bitched about this here before.) I’ve continued to deadlift and RDL heavy. And now that I’ve started to squat for real again, I feel like I have zero quad strength. So I’ve been squatting mostly high bar (along with front squats) to address what seems like an imbalance. Also, I want boulderized quads to match my tree-trunk hams.

    I’ve also noticed that my hips feel far less impinged when squatting high bar. Low bar = searing hip pain (even with shoving knees out); high bar = slight discomfort at most; front squats = no pain. I’ve been assuming that this is because of the change in hip angle. Does that sound reasonable?

    Either way, I’m going to continue to shove my knees out and wrap big rubber bands around shit while I watch TV.

    I remember that you have had an injury, but I don’t remember what it is specifically. I just wanted to share with you that earlier this year I had a hip injury that kept me from squatting or pulling for a few months. Since then I haven’t really low barred at all and have done high bar and front squats. Back when I was easing back into squatting, the low bar positioning created pain in the bad hip. I’m not entirely sure what the injury was. At the time I thought it had something to do with the distal psoas, but I think it might have been labrum related. In any case, I wasn’t eager to push the squats up and didn’t really have a set progression, yet got to the point where I could clean 350 any day of the week.

    In any case, it would make sense if the lingering effects of your injury were preventing you from being able to low bar.

    –Justin

  13. Great write up.

    I’ll write up a more formal response as a blog post explaining my favoring of the high bar squat by the end of the week.

    But, fundamentally, I TOTALLY agree with this statement:

    “It doesn’t fucking matter … you really only need to be squatting. Don’t worry about this other shit.””

    Most people just don’t spend enough time squatting. Pick any version at all and hammer the crap out of it and you’ll be putting yourself many steps ahead. Details are fun, but for people in the beginning of their learning curves, it don’t matter at all. Any version done with good form is awesome.

    For the love of all that is holy – Squat!

  14. I can’t understand a fucking word they are saying, but there is something in this for all comers.

    Justin I think you’ll approve of the final exercise demonstrated.

    I’ve linked this on the fan page or on the site before. It’s a sweet vid.

    –Justin

  15. @sumognat I’m far from an expert but I did have that exact pain and was able to eliminate it by doing the stretch where you put your foot up on the couch cushion or against a wall, knee on the floor, and then slowly raise your torso until it’s as close to parallel with your leg as you can manage. Just hang out in that position for sets of 1-2 minutes and it should clear up shortly. Squeeze your glutes while you do this. And whatever you do, don’t enter the pain cave.

  16. If I have been doing low bar for over a year and working up to a goal, is it smart to take up time to start doing high bar, which will take time away from working towards my low bar goal?

  17. @adamwathan: the drive out of the bottom of the low-bar squat incorporates both hip and knee extension. My understanding of the “hip drive” cue is that it’s a way of visualizing the squat so as to produce a constant back angle out of the bottom, rather than allowing the chest to raise prematurely, which sends the knees forward and slackens the hamstrings, as is a common instinct among those who tend to visualize the squat as having a vertical torso.

  18. y’all see that there’s going to be a former Olympic Weightlifter (female) on the next season of Biggest Loser? Some of y’all might know who she is, no, I don’t remember her name off the top of my head but y’all can use your own fingers and google that shit if y’all really give a shit. anyway, she’s fat now.

    I also think I may have heard there is a former figure competitor (again female) on the next season too. She’s also fat now.

    Relevance=0

  19. Great article. It also should be noted that someone using the high bar squat as a part of an olympic lifting program shouldn’t be worried about their posterior chain not getting enough attention; the hamstrings and hips are being prioritized every damn time you pull the bar in the snatch or clean and jerk. Which should be, in any decent program, a shitload.

  20. And the verdict is…shut the fuck up and squat. Most of the time, the people arguing about this stuff, need to be spending more time lifting and eating. I don’t give a shit how you squat, unless I’m teaching you.
    I’ll stick to low bar just to piss off Brent and his minions though.

  21. if you’re saying that hamstring “deficiencies” from HB squatting can somehow be helped by doing RDL’s, what prevents someone from making a case that for OLifting, quad “deficiencies” from LB squatting can somehow be helped by doing front squats (plus the fact that it is 100% specific to the clean)?

    P.S. I don’t give a fuck really. Just wanting to clarify things.

    P.P.S. I was hoping you would go more in depth in HB placement(not squatting by definition) for powerlifting.

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  23. Do you have any good “cues” that you think about when getting under the bar? I want to use low-bar (I’m doing SS, after all) but I feel like I’m placing the bar higher than I should. I can’t really tell. I took a form video, but via camera phone balanced precariously on a bench 15 feet away, and it’s too low to really see exactly where the bar is.

    I do know if I try and position the bar lower, it doesn’t feel like there’s any kind of shelf to sit it on and it’ll just slide off, or worse, have to be supported by my hands. I try and place it as low on the traps as I can, but I suspect it’s not true “low” bar because I can’t figure out where I’d place a “high” bar; any higher and it’d be on neck bones, I think.

    There’s a pretty detailed description in Starting Strength. The rear deltoids create a shelf from squeezing the shoulder blades together and elevating the elbows. The bar will run across the spine of the scapula (that horizontal bone when you reach back and touch your shoulder blade). If you can’t get a coach, then take a pic and I can sort of help, but bar positioning isn’t easy to correct via vid and pictures (and I can correct in less than 2 seconds in person).

    –Justin

  24. justin,

    can you talk more about the knees in High Bar squat? I understand the reason that going below parallel in a LB squat creates an even force between quads and hams on the knee therefore it is better than half squats because it is less anterior force

    So what does that say about high bar squatting? are HB squats destined to cause knee problems in the long run? What are the mechanisms that make a below parallel, or even ass to grass, front or high bar squat safe on the knees?

  25. Justin,
    What is your opinion of good mornings as opposed to RDLs for strengthening the hamstrings while HB squatting? I just started a 3 month 5/3/1 cycle utilizing HB instead of LB squats after spending a year HB squatting. I did GMs today after squatting and the stretch in my hamstrings feels about the same.
    Excellent timing on this post.
    Thanks.

  26. I used to low bar for general physical preperation. Then once I specialized in weightlifting, I became a huge fan of the high bar, mostly because I became more well rounded in strength. And of course we supplement the lifts with heavy pulls and box work.

    I just wish I could squat like Chakarov http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rl3Vldo7x4c

    I used to low bar squat, and then I took an arrow in the hip.

    –Justin

  27. A quick question regarding the missing type of Squat the Overhead Squat, do you see it as a lowbar or highbar in terms of quads/glutes/hams utilisation?

  28. I really enjoyed this post. I have only recently started high bar. My low bar is ok, but high bar and front squat are shit. Understanding the mechanics and differences will assist in my lifting/coaching. I both powerlift and olympic lift. Thanks.

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